Author Topic: On Canadian Values  (Read 9866 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

guest18

  • Guest
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #330 on: May 02, 2017, 09:33:34 am »
The assumption that people lie on surveys is the same as the assumption that they don't.  Equally valid.  People will tell a survey whatever suits them most.
In which case, San Francisco must be at least 75% gay.

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8563
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #331 on: May 02, 2017, 01:42:51 pm »
The assumption that people lie on surveys is the same as the assumption that they don't.  Equally valid.  People will tell a survey whatever suits them most.
Assuming that they only to try and push a point was what I was responding to. But your point does underscore why Lietch's proposed questionnaire would be a wasted effort.

guest4

  • Guest
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #332 on: May 02, 2017, 04:01:46 pm »
The assumption that people lie on surveys is the same as the assumption that they don't.  Equally valid.  People will tell a survey whatever suits them most.

People tend to be truthful more than untruthful.  This is kind of hardwired into humans, due to mutual trust requirements for a successful society.

This is not the same as saying that nobody ever lies on a survey only that an assumption of truthfulness is more likely to be correct than an assumption of untruthfulness.

In any case the problem is that John/Argus assumes truthfulness where it suits him and untruthfulness where it suits him.   This says more about him than aboit the survey respondents.

guest7

  • Guest
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #333 on: May 02, 2017, 09:15:04 pm »
People tend to be truthful more than untruthful.  This is kind of hardwired into humans, due to mutual trust requirements for a successful society.

This is not the same as saying that nobody ever lies on a survey only that an assumption of truthfulness is more likely to be correct than an assumption of untruthfulness.

In any case the problem is that John/Argus assumes truthfulness where it suits him and untruthfulness where it suits him.   This says more about him than aboit the survey respondents.

I think people tend to be truthful when there is no outcome that will affect them.  Coke or Pepsi?

If they can affect their own situation by lying, they will. 

I should add, if they think it's funny they will too. 

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #334 on: May 03, 2017, 04:23:40 pm »
It's interesting to see all the Islamophiles who have spent months screaming that value testing would be a waste of time because people would just lie now outraged at the suggestion people will lie to a poll.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8563
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #335 on: May 03, 2017, 05:11:10 pm »
It's interesting to see all the Islamophiles who have spent months screaming that value testing would be a waste of time because people would just lie now outraged at the suggestion people will lie to a poll.

Nobody is "screaming" or "outraged", that's just you setting your hair on fire. But do you not understand that there may be a little more incentive to lie to a Kellie Lietch "values test" question than to answer a survey that asks if you still wear your head scarf or not once you have already been accepted into the country?

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #336 on: May 04, 2017, 07:39:02 pm »
Nobody is "screaming" or "outraged", that's just you setting your hair on fire. But do you not understand that there may be a little more incentive to lie to a Kellie Lietch "values test" question than to answer a survey that asks if you still wear your head scarf or not once you have already been accepted into the country?

Do you not understand that the questions given in a values test would not have been straightforward?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Peter F

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Location: I'd rather be in Quebec...
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #337 on: May 04, 2017, 08:47:50 pm »
of course! Thats the only way it would work. A bunch of vague questions whose answers could mean all sorts of things. I'm curious about what steam of innocuous questions would lead to the result that the applicant wishes to kill infidels or maybe hopes to win a lottery and never work again.
"Never take on the role of management"
-- C.A.W. Shop Steward's manual.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8563
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #338 on: May 04, 2017, 09:16:11 pm »
Do you not understand that the questions given in a values test would not have been straightforward?

Oh I see, so it would have been some TRRRRRICKY questions. And everybody with brown skin would be too god damn stupid to catch onto that. Gotcha.

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3462
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #339 on: May 06, 2017, 08:05:50 pm »
echo...

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #340 on: November 26, 2017, 03:51:10 pm »
This story got very little attention and no discussion, and I thought that was pretty odd. Up until the last year or so peaceful demonstration was so much the norm in Canada, that if one person was arrested for violence or attempted violence it would be a big story. It seems like we've already gotten jaded. Dozens of far left counter-protesters were arrested the other day trying to stop a protest against the Liberals by a couple of well-known right wing groups (La Meute and the Storm Alliance).

Police arrested a total of 44 people in two separate incidents, according to police spokesman Andre Turcotte.
These included a first group of 21 individuals who were arrested early in the afternoon for "plotting to counter the protest" that had been organized by right wing groups, he said.

"Weapons were found: telescopic sticks, slingshots, bottles containing a liquid that is for the moment unknown, and in addition their faces were covered," he said.
The suspects were questioned and could face charges of conspiracy for unlawful assembly and wearing disguise for a dangerous purpose, he added.

Another 23 people associated with the counter protest were arrested later after they failed to disperse, Turcotte said.


Have we become that used to Left wing violence that we shrug about it?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com///news/national/dozens-arrested-as-far-right-rally-met-with-anti-fascist-counter-protest-in-quebec-city/article37087489/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe

"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12467
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #341 on: November 26, 2017, 05:38:15 pm »
I don't know that I care too much if there's another far-right vs far-left rumble.  I did notice it but not enough for me to register concern I guess.

guest7

  • Guest
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #342 on: November 26, 2017, 09:40:05 pm »
Have we become that used to Left wing violence that we shrug about it?

I would imagine a lot of people actively support it.  No shrugging whatsoever.

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8563
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #343 on: November 26, 2017, 09:47:50 pm »
I would imagine a lot of people actively support it.  No shrugging whatsoever.

You don't need to imagine, just go look up a place called Charlottesville and you'll find who supports it.

guest7

  • Guest
Re: On Canadian Values
« Reply #344 on: November 26, 2017, 09:53:41 pm »
You don't need to imagine, just go look up a place called Charlottesville and you'll find who supports it.

I agree, but it wasn't just there.  It seems like it happens a lot.