Author Topic: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour  (Read 2148 times)

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Offline Hal 9000

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2017, 12:17:42 pm »
It is exactly the same situation.  Leaving aside the fact that Khadr is probably innocent (a real court would have never even seen the case brought to trial given contradictory evidence.  A real court would also never have accepted the 'confession' given over a decade later under threat of continued torture and indefinite imprisonment) because it's irrelevant here, we are left with Canada violating his rights.  Canada violated Maher Arar's rights in a very similar way, and gave him a very similar reparation payment and apology.  Australia and the UK have given reparation payments to many of their citizens who were prisoners at Guantanamo as well.  It's not about the facts of the Khadr case as it relates to the crime that he was 'convicted' of committing, but the facts surrounding the breach of Charter rights by the Government of Canada.  Anything else is emotional garbage.

It's the same except for the fact that one guy was accused of being a terrorist - and wasn't, while the other guy was a terrorist, who comes from a known terrorist family, who built bombs and who was caught in a fight where he killed at least one person.  Other than that, yeah - the same.

Offline JMT

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2017, 12:27:14 pm »
You still haven't figured out that it's not about what Khadr supposedly did.  That's irrelevant.

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2017, 01:53:36 pm »
You still haven't figured out that it's not about what Khadr supposedly did.  That's irrelevant.

We are obviously arguing two different perspectives.  Although  I don't agree with the courts decisions, that did make that decision - fair enough.  My point is that the amount of award, and the apology (at least) should've been fought.  The idea that "the court was gonna side with Khadr, so better give him $10.5Mil" - and get it to him before anyone finds out, doesn't wash with me.  Nor does it wash with 70% of the rest of Canadians. 
If the courts want to stand on the pedastal and dress down our government, then they can bear the responsibility of how much to pay out - As you said, the precedent was set with Arar, so chances are Khadr would be awarded no more than that $10.5mil anyway.  The government looks really bad on this one - and the people aren't pleased. 

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2017, 02:41:47 pm »
Had Harper defended a Canadian citizen with as much zeal as he defended his boutique tax cuts maybe I would give credence to the crap you spew.

This is all on Harper who, unlike counterparts in Australia, UK, France, Germany, etc could not be bothered to apply Cdn rights to defend a citizen from the tyranny of US military "law."

You realize Khadr arrived in Gitmo in 2002, right? The interrogation by CSIS which forms the bulk of the complaint against the Canadian government happened in 2003 and 2004, when the Liberals were still in power.

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Harper should have defended Canadian citizenship against US laws

Do you have any idea how many Canadians are in prisons around the world now which our government takes absolutely zero notice of? And most of them are real citizens, not citizens of convenience like the Khadrs.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2017, 02:43:17 pm »
You still haven't figured out that it's not about what Khadr supposedly did.  That's irrelevant.

He was a foreign combatant in Afghanistan, sworn to  Al Quaeda.

"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2017, 02:57:18 pm »
You realize Khadr arrived in Gitmo in 2002, right? The interrogation by CSIS which forms the bulk of the complaint against the Canadian government happened in 2003 and 2004, when the Liberals were still in power.

Do you have any idea how many Canadians are in prisons around the world now which our government takes absolutely zero notice of? And most of them are real citizens, not citizens of convenience like the Khadrs.

I think the Canadian held in North Korea is a pastor...that dude picked the wrong religion (and color) if he's looking for help from Trudeau.

Offline JMT

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2017, 03:25:14 pm »
He was a foreign combatant in Afghanistan, sworn to  Al Quaeda.

It's not up to you to decide that.  I'm sure he had a lot of choice when his dad took him there at 9 years old.

Offline JMT

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2017, 03:26:45 pm »
I think the Canadian held in North Korea is a pastor...that dude picked the wrong religion (and color) if he's looking for help from Trudeau.

Has Canada violated his rights?

Offline JMT

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2017, 03:28:01 pm »
We are obviously arguing two different perspectives.  Although  I don't agree with the courts decisions, that did make that decision - fair enough.  My point is that the amount of award, and the apology (at least) should've been fought.  The idea that "the court was gonna side with Khadr, so better give him $10.5Mil" - and get it to him before anyone finds out, doesn't wash with me.  Nor does it wash with 70% of the rest of Canadians. 
If the courts want to stand on the pedastal and dress down our government, then they can bear the responsibility of how much to pay out - As you said, the precedent was set with Arar, so chances are Khadr would be awarded no more than that $10.5mil anyway.  The government looks really bad on this one - and the people aren't pleased.

The same survey has 79% of people admitting that they know almost nothing about the situation, so, there's that.  Charter rights aren't a popularity contest.

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2017, 04:49:05 pm »
The same survey has 79% of people admitting that they know almost nothing about the situation, so, there's that.  Charter rights aren't a popularity contest.

Still arguing differing points!  However, to your point, it doesn't make a lick of difference if the general public understands the nuance of the - let's call it "arrangement" between Trudeau and Khadr.  What they know and will remember come election day is that Trudeau willingly offered up and paid up a large sum of money to a terrorist...and tried slipping it under the radar. 

Offline JMT

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2017, 06:16:40 pm »
Still arguing differing points!  However, to your point, it doesn't make a lick of difference if the general public understands the nuance of the - let's call it "arrangement" between Trudeau and Khadr.  What they know and will remember come election day is that Trudeau willingly offered up and paid up a large sum of money to a terrorist...and tried slipping it under the radar.

Conservatives never seem to understand that nuance is actually important.  It's not about his charges - it's about the abuse of his rights.  The inability to separate is a real failing.  The ability to jump to conclusions with no understanding, as demonstrated by the survey, is an even worse failing.

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2017, 08:04:21 pm »
Still arguing differing points!  However, to your point, it doesn't make a lick of difference if the general public understands the nuance of the - let's call it "arrangement" between Trudeau and Khadr.  What they know and will remember come election day is that Trudeau willingly offered up and paid up a large sum of money to a terrorist...and tried slipping it under the radar.

Seems to me people should understand why it's important to  protect and uphold our charter rights, even if we don't approve of every person those rights protect.  Championing and encouraging ignorance in the hopes your party will win the next election , which is what the Conservative party appears to be doing, seems remarkably stupid and shortsighted to me.  Unless you want a society in which an individual's rights are not guaranteed, of course. 

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2017, 09:25:36 pm »
Conservatives never seem to understand that nuance is actually important.  It's not about his charges - it's about the abuse of his rights.  The inability to separate is a real failing.  The ability to jump to conclusions with no understanding, as demonstrated by the survey, is an even worse failing.

Maybe 7 out of 10 don't care about the nuance.  7 out of 10 don't care about Khadr's age.  7 out of 10 don't care about the right's of a traitor and terrorist.   I cared about Arar's rights, Khadr...not so much...and I can live with that.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2017, 12:04:46 pm »
I cared about Arar's rights, Khadr...not so much...and I can live with that.
What a stupid position.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Omar Khadr Settlement Rumour
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2017, 12:35:17 pm »
71% of Canada is against this "settlement", I wouldn't redecorate the new home if I were Trudeau.

71% of Canadians are looking at the issue emotionally.

We live in a civilized society where everyone, including murderers and child rapists, have rights.  Just because you dislike what someone does you can't take away their rights.

That's not how any of this works.