Author Topic: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)  (Read 2131 times)

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Offline kimmy

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So, any bets on what China does in response to the performative theatre in the Commons today?

We better be careful, they might withhold our supply of CanSino Biologics vaccine.

I just think it's kind of ironic that some of the people voting to recognize the genocide in China won't recognize the one in Canada.

Our Prime Minister had no difficulty applying the word genocide after the MMIW report, but now he's apparently unclear on the concept.

 -k
Masked for your safety.
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Offline eyeball

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Our Prime Minister had no difficulty applying the word genocide after the MMIW report, but now he's apparently unclear on the concept.

 -k

If the conditional nature of Trudeau's application is out of concern for the two Michaels and other Canadians in China that could be held hostage he should be honest and say so. Basing cabinet abstinence on doubts about the legality of the term genocide appears to be in line with Canada not mentioning China in our initiative to end hostage diplomacy on the international stage.  I get the desire of cabinet to approach this delicately and that dealing with China is extremely complicated by deep cultural issues with face https://www.china-mike.com/chinese-culture/cult-of-face/ that both precede and still dominate China's dictators even more than it does China's society.  Lets face it, a bruised ego is as bad a condition for politicians in our political system to deal with as it is in China's. All of them bend and contort themselves into similar pretzels.

Apparently there's some need to leave China's rulers a way out of the corner the term genocide puts them into and I think using our powerlessness as a middle power in the face of super-power authoritarianism might be the key to getting more allies and fostering more awareness of what's really going on. We have no trouble encouraging people we've committed genocide against to be honest about how it feels and that talking about it openly and honestly is key to reconciliation.

Perhaps there's as much or more a place for weakness and helplessness in the scheme of things. We know from experience that estrangement and isolation don't work but then neither will pretending the contentiousness of a term's legal definition is more important than the reason for applying it or not.  It was this sort of quibbling that kept Canada from addressing the genocide we committed.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 01:04:40 pm by eyeball »

Offline wilber

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So, any bets on what China does in response to the performative theatre in the Commons today?

Who cares, Canadians have made their minds up about China. Trudeau should be happy, Canadians have sent a clear message to China without him having to attach his name to it.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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We need to start diversifying our supply chains.  I say move a ton of manufacturing to India and play those 2 countries off each other.  No country should have leverage over Canada like China does.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Our politicians sold us out to the lowest bidder.  Everyone could see this situation coming 15-20 years ago.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Online the_squid

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Our politicians sold us out to the lowest bidder.  Everyone could see this situation coming 15-20 years ago.

Everyone continues to vote with their wallets even now. 

If you shop at places like Walmart, or aren’t choosy and refuse to spend more for items not made in China, then you’ve no one to blame but yourself.
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Offline wilber

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Everyone continues to vote with their wallets even now. 

If you shop at places like Walmart, or aren’t choosy and refuse to spend more for items not made in China, then you’ve no one to blame but yourself.

It's often hard to not find things made in China. It isn't Walmart. Plus, many iconic Western companies are now owned by Chinese corporations.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline eyeball

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Everyone continues to vote with their wallets even now. 

If you shop at places like Walmart, or aren’t choosy and refuse to spend more for items not made in China, then you’ve no one to blame but yourself.
What about people who can't afford to be choosy and spend more?  I mean the obvious answer is what I've suggested, we make the sort of sacrifices our grandparents made and do without.

So why aren't O'Toole and Singh suggesting boycotts of Walmart and a more minimalist approach to consumerism?
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Offline eyeball

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I realize there are only so many fights people can fight but I sure wish 1st Nations developed an interest in Canada's foreign affairs.  I'd go as far to say they should probably have at least as great a say in these affairs as Ottawa and perhaps more when it comes to matters involving our nation's conscience and morality towards other peoples.

Further to this;

Quote
The erasure of Indigenous thought in foreign policy

Where is the acknowledgement of — and engagement with — Indigenous thought in the development of international relations and the practice of foreign policy? Hayden King calls out the field’s glaring gaps and asks whether a different kind of foreign policy is possible or even desirable.

https://opencanada.org/erasure-indigenous-thought-foreign-policy/
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 03:18:00 pm by eyeball »

Offline JMT

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Our Prime Minister had no difficulty applying the word genocide after the MMIW report, but now he's apparently unclear on the concept.

 -k

While the Prime Minister of Canada has a lot of power to end the ongoing genocide against Canada's indigenous people, I question his ability to do anything about the one in China. I don't think anyone likes what's going on in China, but about the only thing we can do right now is shoot ourselves in the foot.

Offline JMT

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It's often hard to not find things made in China. It isn't Walmart. Plus, many iconic Western companies are now owned by Chinese corporations.

It isn't only about where things come from. Lobster season opens in Nova Scotia soon. Much of it goes to China. Now China again has Maine as a potential supplier. Lets see how this goes for us.
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Offline JMT

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Who cares, Canadians have made their minds up about China. Trudeau should be happy, Canadians have sent a clear message to China without him having to attach his name to it.

How secure would you feel after yesterday, if you were one of the hundreds of thousands of Canadians living and working in China?

Offline wilber

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How secure would you feel after yesterday, if you were one of the hundreds of thousands of Canadians living and working in China?

Yesterday?

If I were one of the hundreds of thousands of Canadians living and working in China I would have been re evaluating my status from the day the Micheals were seized. Are you saying we will just have to eat China's **** perpetually because of the threat to Canadians living and working in China? The Micheals should have been a lesson to any Canadian in China that they have no rights or security and the Chinese government will have no hesitation using them in any way it wants to put leverage on Canada.

Over 80 Liberals voted for this motion. They know what side of history they are on.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline eyeball

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How secure would you feel after yesterday, if you were one of the hundreds of thousands of Canadians living and working in China?
Why should we care? No one is forcing them to be there and by staying they're compromising our country's ability to be a moral nation.

All I know for sure is that I love my Chinese grandchildren and I loath the human race.  It's a challenge to keep up the appearance of optimism for the future that grandparents should be trying to fill their grandkids with and more importantly why.

I feel like I'm tricking them or something.
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Online the_squid

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It isn't only about where things come from. Lobster season opens in Nova Scotia soon. Much of it goes to China. Now China again has Maine as a potential supplier. Lets see how this goes for us.

China is a massive market for our goods as well...  lumber, seafood or instance.  It has helped fishermen make a killing compared to being stuck in the domestic market on things like crab and prawns. 

I do think we need to make a stand on human rights and not buy so much plastic crap from there.  I avoid Chinese made products whenever I can...   but sometimes it isn’t possible (as I type on a Chinese-made iPad...  good luck getting consumer electronics made elsewhere).

The question is...  how do we do that without harming our own industries in a global market?