Author Topic: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)  (Read 11559 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #75 on: December 16, 2020, 08:45:58 pm »
I’m well aware that the laws were unjust.  Thanks.

1969 was more than half way through the 20th century.
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Offline JMT

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2020, 08:47:04 pm »
Justin Trudeau Sr. closed more residential schools than any other prime minister:


Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #77 on: December 16, 2020, 08:49:02 pm »
1969 was more than half way through the 20th century.

Yes.  It was 69% through the 20th century.  Thanks again.
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Offline Omni

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2020, 08:50:35 pm »
Religion, cultural 'superiority,' racism, etc. It didn't start with residential schools, and it didn't end with them either.

And residential schools were simply a convenient method of perpetuating all the above while also providing a potential screening method as to what was really being done. And apparently there are still those around who took the bait hook, line and sinker. 
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #79 on: December 16, 2020, 10:32:31 pm »
Religion, cultural 'superiority,' racism, etc. It didn't start with residential schools, and it didn't end with them either.

But what was the reason?  Why spend tons of money on a program to do these things?
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Offline Omni

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #80 on: December 16, 2020, 10:43:51 pm »
But what was the reason?  Why spend tons of money on a program to do these things?

White folks had tons of money and they gave it to of all the wrong people, religious groups to administer what is called assimilation.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #81 on: December 16, 2020, 10:46:38 pm »
White folks had tons of money and they gave it to of all the wrong people, religious groups to administer what is called assimilation.

But why did they want to assimilate them?

What was the raison d'etre of this whole program?
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Offline Omni

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #82 on: December 16, 2020, 11:08:30 pm »
But why did they want to assimilate them?

What was the raison d'etre of this whole program?

It's called white supremacy.

https://www.canada.ca/en/parks-canada/news/2020/09/the-residential-school-system.html
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 12:11:24 am by Omni »

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #83 on: December 17, 2020, 09:51:04 am »
So you don't hold Douglas accountable for the beliefs of his time but you do hold the people responsible for the schools accountable for the beliefs of their time. Nice double standard.

No I hold them responsible for their actions. not words or intentions, but the things they actually did.

Yes, otherwise known as colonialism. But the residential schools were established after the lands were divvied up to white people as private property. Indigenous peoples were already subjugated. South of us, in places like Minnesota, they were seen as wild hunter-gatherers who were incompatible with white culture and they were being exterminated,  even with bounties on their scalps. I think the cultural genocide was seen as a more palatable alternative to the real genocide going on, and that it was felt to be necessary because the previous economy that sustained their culture had already been eliminated.
Perhaps the residential schools actually saved them from total annihilation, giving them a chance to save what's left of their culture so it can grow in 21st century "decolonial" colonialism.


"We had to destroy the village in order to save it."

Also you are correct Canada didn't carry out a wholesale genocide of the indigenous people, but it certainly wasn't for lack of effort on the part of the settlers. May I suggest you read "Clearing the Plains" by James Daschuk.

Virtually everyone born before the 20th century was a homophobe who disagreed with gay marriage.  By that standard everyone in the past was a terrible human being.  People back then rode horse and buggy and didn't have electricity.  In my city they're trying to change the name of a town that's been around for 200 years because the founder was a Brit who owned slaves. We can acknowledge our history without erasing it.

Changing the names of places and taking down statues of execrable people isn't erasing history, it's actually reckoning with it.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #84 on: December 17, 2020, 10:00:52 am »
But why did they want to assimilate them?

What was the raison d'etre of this whole program?

Because if the state assimilated them, then it could wash its hands of any responsibility for providing for them.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #85 on: December 17, 2020, 11:32:10 am »

Changing the names of places and taking down statues of execrable people isn't erasing history, it's actually reckoning with it.

I think there are times to take down statues and change names.  Confederate leaders is one.  They're only famous for fighting to protect slavery.  For people who were famous for other historical reasons but also happened to own slaves because it was very common at the time, like George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, I think canceling them is over the top.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #86 on: December 17, 2020, 11:50:18 am »
I think there are times to take down statues and change names.  Confederate leaders is one.  They're only famous for fighting to protect slavery. For people who were famous for other historical reasons but also happened to own slaves because it was very common at the time, like George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, I think canceling them is over the top.


I think the beef with those guys is a bit more complicated than the fact they owned slaves. George Washington wiped out native villages, Jefferson not only owned slaves, he sold them and profited from their labour. Names and statues don't convey the complexity of these characters, but present a one-dimensional hagiographic image.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #87 on: December 17, 2020, 11:52:31 am »
Complete nonsense.  Erasing history isn't reckoning it.  You may as well be burning books.  People like you are the North American Taliban.

Nice to know that, in an ever-changing world, you're still capable of nothing more than regurgitating whatever whacko right wing talking point is currently in vogue.

But if you get your history solely from looking at statues, it does explain a lot.
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guest78

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #88 on: December 17, 2020, 12:43:40 pm »
Nice to know that, in an ever-changing world, you're still capable of nothing more than regurgitating whatever whacko right wing talking point is currently in vogue.

But if you get your history solely from looking at statues, it does explain a lot.
You're the one regurgitating whacko talking points.  I really loved the "changing names and places isn't erasing history, it's reckoning it".  Did you get that from Hallmark?  It's meaningless pablum.  You're literally calling for the erasing of history, and then claiming it's not erasing history.  Orwell would be proud. 
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #89 on: December 17, 2020, 01:04:59 pm »
You're the one regurgitating whacko talking points.  I really loved the "changing names and places isn't erasing history, it's reckoning it".  Did you get that from Hallmark?  It's meaningless pablum.

I can see how someone as intensely dedicated to maintaining their own ignorance as you would find that statement confusing, but it's quite straightforward. The debate about removing statues has done more for educating people about history than the statues themselves could do and have ever done.

Quote
You're literally calling for the erasing of history, and then claiming it's not erasing history. Orwell would be proud.

LOL "literally"

If you think taking down statues and changing names of institutions is "erasing history" you also probably still think your mommy disappears during a game of peek-a-boo.

Speaking of erasing history, I see you're now following the company line into the "anti-globalist", anti-immigration, anti-foreign intervention populist right, which is quite the change from the pro-Iraq war, pro big business Shady I remember. I guess if you don't stand for anything you'll fall for everything.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 01:56:38 pm by Black Dog »
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