Author Topic: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)  (Read 9852 times)

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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2020, 05:11:33 pm »
Obviously.  But I don't think Sir John A thought to himself "We need a program to help these natives by starving, beating, and molesting them".

It's unclear to me what methods they figured would be used to achieve the goal of "kill the Indian within" if not the ones that were actually employed.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2020, 05:14:00 pm »
O’Toole said they were set up to educate them.  This is untrue.  Wrong.  Bull-shite.  That wasn’t why they were created.

Of course it was.  It was crappy education.  It was to teach them the "western ways" while stripping all their culture from them so they could succeed socioeconomically like western people were.  It was a really stupid and horrible policy.  Plus all the abuse.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2020, 05:15:14 pm »
His point was that people complain about things named after Sir John A and Ryerson but don't ask to have Pierre Trudeau's name removed from things.

I'd be ok with that.


Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2020, 05:16:13 pm »
It's unclear to me what methods they figured would be used to achieve the goal of "kill the Indian within" if not the ones that were actually employed.

So you think molesting and starving children was Sir John A's goal at the outset???
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2020, 05:18:43 pm »
So you think molesting and starving children was Sir John A's goal at the outset???

The goal was to wipe out their culture and force them into compliance. I doubt JAM would have cared much about how that goal was achieved.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2020, 05:19:12 pm »
Well said.  O’Toole is guilty of speaking the truth. This might be the dumbest thread I’ve seen in this forum.

What kind of education were they supposed to get Shady?

Offline Omni

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2020, 05:20:06 pm »
So you think molesting and starving children was Sir John A's goal at the outset???

Beating them for speaking their Native tongue was.

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2020, 05:21:20 pm »
Not sure if "misguided" is how I'd characterize a policy of deliberate cultural genocide.
I believe the prevailing idea of the time was that white colonialism had arrived and wasn't going anywhere, so these people had to adapt to the new culture or perish. The schools were intended to facilitate that adaptation. It didn't work out so well, but I don't think the original intention was evil beyond the inherent evil of colonialism, which we are generally still advancing and exploiting and enjoying. It's still not going anywhere, even among "decolonialists."
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Offline Omni

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2020, 05:23:21 pm »
Well said.  O’Toole is guilty of speaking the truth.  This might be the dumbest thread I’ve seen in this forum.

Which of his contradictory statements on the subject is "the truth" to you today shady boy?

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2020, 05:23:34 pm »
Well said.  O’Toole is guilty of speaking the truth.  This might be the dumbest thread I’ve seen in this forum.
Speaking "the truth" while ignoring the larger reality, which is something "conservatives " are good at these days.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2020, 05:25:00 pm »
I believe the prevailing idea of the time was that white colonialism had arrived and wasn't going anywhere, so these people had to adapt to the new culture or perish. The schools were intended to facilitate that adaptation. It didn't work out so well, but I don't think the original intention was evil beyond the inherent evil of colonialism, which we are generally still advancing and exploiting and enjoying. It's still not going anywhere, even among "decolonialists."

No the idea was to assimilate them by destroying their culture, not help them "adapt." If helping them adapt by teaching them reading, writing and arithmetic, that goal could have achieved that by having schools on reserve just like in other communities and allowed children to stay with their families. but JAM rejected that idea because he felt that would simply create "a savage who can read and write” as he told the House of Commons.
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2020, 05:31:38 pm »
So you think molesting and starving children was Sir John A's goal at the outset???
No, I don't think it was. Pretty much all schools beat the **** out of kids. I got the strap from several principals and vice principals. Mr. Syko had a cut-off goalie stick he used as a paddle and made you touch your toes in front of the class. Mr. McBain was banging a student and everyone knew. There's an article on Mr. Smith in this week's Winnipeg Free Press and how he and fellow teacher Graham James always tried to touch the boys. It was a different time in that regard, but we still "colonialize" everyone in this country.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2020, 05:34:29 pm »
I wonder what Shady's reaction would be if Jagmeet Singh said something about Stalin or Mao's "good intentions" ha ha just kidding I know exactly what he'd say.

Offline wilber

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2020, 05:36:47 pm »
No the idea was to assimilate them by destroying their culture, not help them "adapt." If helping them adapt by teaching them reading, writing and arithmetic, that goal could have achieved that by having schools on reserve just like in other communities and allowed children to stay with their families. but JAM rejected that idea because he felt that would simply create "a savage who can read and write” as he told the House of Commons.

So what about all the governments that came after JAM, what did they do. Laurier was PM for 15 years after JAM and is regarded as one of the greatest PM's ever. He didn't do anything to change it. JAM gets all the heat for residential schools but PM after PM from both parties did nothing.
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2020, 05:37:33 pm »
No the idea was to assimilate them by destroying their culture, not help them "adapt."
Their culture was based on a system of communal lands and sustainable hunting. That was over and it wasn't coming back, and they thought they needed help to learn the new ways so they could move forward and not be left behind. I don't think they saw themselves as killing their culture because their culture was already killed.