Author Topic: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)  (Read 1669 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2020, 04:32:14 pm »
It's sad that telling the truth makes people so unhappy.
His take is completely accurate.  They were meant to be places of education, but ended up being something very different.  How is this even controversial?

member Shady, O'Fool has just taken a do-over... how about you?

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2020, 04:35:31 pm »
O'Toole says that residential schools were made to "provide education" to indigenous people. 

What he ignores is that they were to be educated that their culture, languages and people were simply savages.  The schools were meant to destroy their culture and assimilate them into the colonist's version of Canada.  Even Harper admitted these things in Canada's apology to First Nations people. 

O'Toole on the other hand, when the cameras are off, thinks they were set up for a noble reason and that to say otherwise, you're a dumb lefty.

https://globalnews.ca/video/7524601/erin-otoole-says-residential-schools-created-to-provide-education-but-became-horrible

What a disgusting attitude.  At least the crackpots in the CPC aren't hiding their true feelings in the shadows and only come out when they don't think the cameras are rolling.  O'Toole will tell his supporters that he's with them....  while pretending to hold mainstream Canadian views.  Apparently, to acknowledge that residential schools were a bad thing is to be a  dumb woke lefty...   in my view, acknowledging that residential schools were set up to destroy indigenous culture is patently obvious and clearly a mainstream view that looks at facts and evidence to draw this conclusion.

Nothing O'Toole said was wrong.  The schools had good intentions, but these intentions were terribly misguided (based on 19th century attitudes and knowledge), and also quickly became terribly abusive.  A disaster of a policy.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Omni

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2020, 04:48:10 pm »
Nothing O'Toole said was wrong.  The schools had good intentions, but these intentions were terribly misguided (based on 19th century attitudes and knowledge), and also quickly became terribly abusive.  A disaster of a policy.

You don't see your obvious contradiction, "good intentions" but then" a disaster of a policy"? The intentions were simply racism from the get go.

Offline the_squid

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2020, 04:48:33 pm »
O’Toole now says the exact opposite of what he said to those young conservative-wannabes...

Quote
"In my comments to Ryerson students, I said that the residential school system was intended to try and 'provide education.' It was not. The system was intended to remove children from the influence of their homes, families, traditions and cultures," O'Toole said.

Were you wrong too Wilber, or do you stand by what O’Toole now says is wrong?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/o-toole-walks-back-words-on-residential-schools-amid-backlash-1.5233782

Offline the_squid

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2020, 04:49:29 pm »
Nothing O'Toole said was wrong.  The schools had good intentions, but these intentions were terribly misguided (based on 19th century attitudes and knowledge), and also quickly became terribly abusive.  A disaster of a policy.

O’Toole just said the exact opposite....   that he was wrong.

What say you now?

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2020, 04:56:43 pm »
Nothing O'Toole said was wrong. The schools had good intentions, but these intentions were terribly misguided (based on 19th century attitudes and knowledge), and also quickly became terribly abusive.  A disaster of a policy.

Not sure if "misguided" is how I'd characterize a policy of deliberate cultural genocide.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2020, 04:58:57 pm »
Not sure if "misguided" is how I'd characterize a policy of deliberate cultural genocide.

Apparently, they had “good intentions”...   

They say this with a straight face too....    as if cultural genocide was a good intention....

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2020, 05:02:10 pm »
You’re simply wrong.  They were not created just for education.  They were made to destroy indigenous culture, which cause irreparable harm.  It doesn’t do any good whatsoever to try and sympathize with the colonizers.  It just makes him look like an awful person with backwards views.  Canada was wrong then and it’s wrong now.

The gov at the time thought their culture was crappy because natives were very poor and uneducated etc.  They thought that educating them via assimilation and turning them into "normal Canadians" would help them.  They were very, very wrong.

O'Toole didn't really say anything wrong.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Omni

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2020, 05:04:01 pm »
The gov at the time thought their culture was crappy because natives were very poor and uneducated etc.  They thought that educating them via assimilation and turning them into "normal Canadians" would help them.  They were very, very wrong.

O'Toole didn't really say anything wrong.

He certainly contradicted himself in a big hurry. Which side of his coin would you say was not wrong?
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2020, 05:04:06 pm »
Apparently, they had “good intentions”...   

They say this with a straight face too....    as if cultural genocide was a good intention....

I'd be hard pressed to think of many evils that weren't done by people who thought they had good intentions. There's a whole damn saying about where that gets you!
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2020, 05:04:22 pm »
As far as I know, starving, beating and molesting kids have been considered Bad Things for a very long time, so I'm not sure we're talking about some newfangled set of standards here.

Obviously.  But I don't think Sir John A thought to himself "We need a program to help these natives by starving, beating, and molesting them".
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Offline the_squid

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2020, 05:04:26 pm »
The gov at the time thought their culture was crappy because natives were very poor and uneducated etc.  They thought that educating them via assimilation and turning them into "normal Canadians" would help them.  They were very, very wrong.

O'Toole didn't really say anything wrong.

O’Toole said they were set up to educate them.  This is untrue.  Wrong.  Bull-shite.  That wasn’t why they were created.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2020, 05:06:59 pm »
As I said above, O'Tool was technically correct about the intent of the residential schools, though the concept of education there is completely divorced from what we would associate with the term normally. But the most egregious part of his diatribe was the part where he was going on about the fact that Liberal prime ministers opened more residential schools than Conservatives, which is just as meaningless a factoid as the Republicans being the party that ended slavery in the U.S. the GOPification of the CPC continues.

His point was that people complain about things named after Sir John A and Ryerson but don't ask to have Pierre Trudeau's name removed from things.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2020, 05:07:30 pm »
There was an educational poster created to help people with views like Graham and Wilber are espousing.  To help “educate” people like that.  Don’t worry Graham...  no one is going to come take you away from mom’s basement..

Quote
The students’ experiences of residential schools were not all bad. Different people had differing experiences. Many dedicated, good people worked in the system. The system itself however was designed “to educate & colonize a people against their will,” as the missionary Hugh McKay admitted in 1903. The policy of forced assimilation had many Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal critics, but in each case the critics were silenced. A good example is the missionary E.F. Wilson, who came into conflict with the church over his criticism of forced assimilation and his promotion of Aboriginal cultures, languages and political autonomy. In short, not everyone believed the schools were promoting good policy.
http://www.ahf.ca/downloads/misconceptions.pdf
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2020, 05:10:56 pm »
O’Toole just said the exact opposite....   that he was wrong.

What say you now?

It's both of what he said before and now.  Both are true.  He originally said they were trying to educate them.  That's true.  They just did it in a horrible way.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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