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Author Topic: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)  (Read 11566 times)

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Online wilber

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #195 on: February 23, 2021, 05:21:51 pm »
Quote from: the_squid on February 23, 2021, 05:15:47 pm
China is a massive market for our goods as well...  lumber, seafood or instance.  It has helped fishermen make a killing compared to being stuck in the domestic market on things like crab and prawns. 

I do think we need to make a stand on human rights and not buy so much plastic crap from there.  I avoid Chinese made products whenever I can...   but sometimes it isn’t possible (as I type on a Chinese-made iPad...  good luck getting consumer electronics made elsewhere).

The question is...  how do we do that without harming our own industries in a global market?

There will be some cost it's inevitable, at least in the short term. We have to decide who we are.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #196 on: February 23, 2021, 05:26:01 pm »
Quote from: wilber on February 23, 2021, 05:21:51 pm
There will be some cost it's inevitable, at least in the short term. We have to decide who we are.

Easy to say...   but if there isn’t a coalition of other nations who take this action, it would essentially be meaningless and would probably only harm Canada.
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Online wilber

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #197 on: February 23, 2021, 05:31:31 pm »
Quote from: the_squid on February 23, 2021, 05:26:01 pm
Easy to say...   but if there isn’t a coalition of other nations who take this action, it would essentially be meaningless and would probably only harm Canada.

It easy to say but it's true.

I agree that there has to be some kind of coalition or China will just play one off against the other.

However, we can make our own choices as individuals.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #198 on: February 23, 2021, 05:38:13 pm »
Quote from: JMT on February 23, 2021, 04:35:28 pm
It isn't only about where things come from. Lobster season opens in Nova Scotia soon. Much of it goes to China. Now China again has Maine as a potential supplier. Lets see how this goes for us.
If it helps Maine, O'Toole and Singh should immediately be barking up Trudeau's ass to summon Biden to explain wtf he thinks America is up too. It should be a teachable moment when China smiles and shrugs off the lack of issues the US has with referring to genocide.

Politicians of every stripe, including opposition politicians can be the lowest form of subhuman in existence when they want to be - they almost make sentience look like a waste of evolution. If our government's opposition was honest about doing something constructive in Canada's name they would be helping the government of the day by acknowledging the predicament we're all in as a middle power squashed between super-powers.  Instead they make it worse by exploiting the issue for political gain and sandwich us even more firmly between a rock and a hard place.

Our allies are as big problem here as our enemies. Like the Uighurs we're on our own.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #199 on: February 23, 2021, 05:40:23 pm »
Quote from: wilber on February 23, 2021, 05:21:51 pm
We have to decide who we are.
Not as much as we need to decide WHAT we are, which is moral or amoral. It's that black and white.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #200 on: February 23, 2021, 05:51:58 pm »
Quote from: the_squid on February 23, 2021, 05:15:47 pm
China is a massive market for our goods as well...  lumber, seafood or instance.  It has helped fishermen make a killing compared to being stuck in the domestic market on things like crab and prawns. 

I do think we need to make a stand on human rights and not buy so much plastic crap from there.  I avoid Chinese made products whenever I can...   but sometimes it isn’t possible (as I type on a Chinese-made iPad...  good luck getting consumer electronics made elsewhere).

The question is...  how do we do that without harming our own industries in a global market?
The simple answer is that we can't do that without harming our economy. We either accept that and if we can't then we should bow to China.

This is what O'Toole and Singh should be explaining to Canadians otherwise they're no better than Trudeau in terms of their service to Canada and human decency.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 05:53:52 pm by eyeball »
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #201 on: February 23, 2021, 07:58:21 pm »
Quote from: the_squid on February 23, 2021, 02:40:33 pm
Everyone continues to vote with their wallets even now. 

If you shop at places like Walmart, or aren’t choosy and refuse to spend more for items not made in China, then you’ve no one to blame but yourself.

Ya but China.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #202 on: February 23, 2021, 07:59:44 pm »
Quote from: JMT on February 23, 2021, 04:33:58 pm
While the Prime Minister of Canada has a lot of power to end the ongoing genocide against Canada's indigenous people, I question his ability to do anything about the one in China. I don't think anyone likes what's going on in China, but about the only thing we can do right now is shoot ourselves in the foot.

Either they voted the Liberals were screwed.
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Offline JMT

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #203 on: February 23, 2021, 08:03:37 pm »
Quote from: the_squid on February 23, 2021, 05:15:47 pm
China is a massive market for our goods as well...  lumber, seafood or instance.  It has helped fishermen make a killing compared to being stuck in the domestic market on things like crab and prawns. 

I do think we need to make a stand on human rights and not buy so much plastic crap from there.  I avoid Chinese made products whenever I can...   but sometimes it isn’t possible (as I type on a Chinese-made iPad...  good luck getting consumer electronics made elsewhere).

The question is...  how do we do that without harming our own industries in a global market?

Quote from: wilber on February 23, 2021, 04:57:52 pm
Over 80 Liberals voted for this motion. They know what side of history they are on.


We definitely have to take a stand, as there likely is a genocide going on. To take a stand against a country like China, it has to be in consultation with another global power. Either the European Union or the United States have to be ready to pursue this, or all we do is harm ourselves. The motion yesterday will already have harmed us.
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Offline JMT

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #204 on: February 23, 2021, 08:04:54 pm »
Quote from: wilber on February 23, 2021, 05:31:31 pm
It easy to say but it's true.

I agree that there has to be some kind of coalition or China will just play one off against the other.

However, we can make our own choices as individuals.

Sure, but the Government of Canada has a responsibility to look out for the best interest of Canadians. Unilaterally declaring a genocide in Xinxiang isn't that.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #205 on: February 23, 2021, 08:05:02 pm »
Quote from: wilber on February 23, 2021, 05:21:51 pm
There will be some cost it's inevitable, at least in the short term. We have to decide who we are.

I think we already have.  We're sellouts and so is everyone else.

Australia is basically screwed.  Their economy is very entwined with China. 
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #206 on: February 23, 2021, 08:07:54 pm »
Quote from: JMT on February 23, 2021, 08:04:54 pm
Sure, but the Government of Canada has a responsibility to look out for the best interest of Canadians. Unilaterally declaring a genocide in Xinxiang isn't that.

They'll probably just pass a motion saying Canada is committing genocide.  Our government did abstain.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #207 on: February 23, 2021, 09:33:53 pm »
Quote from: JMT on February 23, 2021, 08:04:54 pm
Sure, but the Government of Canada has a responsibility to look out for the best interest of Canadians. Unilaterally declaring a genocide in Xinxiang isn't that.
Dictatorships are not in the best interest of the country and as I understand it the decision to acknowledge China's genocide is multi-lateral.  If anything our allies should be castigating us but I'm guessing maybe Biden knows that'll look pretty gauche when it comes to shrugging at Maine's good fortune come lobster season.

Trump would have just laughed.
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Online wilber

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #208 on: February 23, 2021, 09:53:49 pm »
Quote from: JMT on February 23, 2021, 08:04:54 pm
Sure, but the Government of Canada has a responsibility to look out for the best interest of Canadians. Unilaterally declaring a genocide in Xinxiang isn't that.

That's why Cabinet abstained. It's the best of both worlds, the message got sent without the government being involved.
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Offline JMT

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Re: The Official Opposition thread (was O’Toole thread)
« Reply #209 on: February 23, 2021, 10:40:07 pm »
Quote from: wilber on February 23, 2021, 09:53:49 pm
That's why Cabinet abstained. It's the best of both worlds, the message got sent without the government being involved.

Theoretically. China still seems to have considered it a slight though. There was really no good outcome to the vote.
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