Author Topic: No llores por mí Alberta  (Read 34776 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #795 on: October 20, 2020, 05:40:29 pm »
Nonsense. The dollar can be at 70 cents with full employment and the economy going full beans. Not sure where you get the idea that the dollar has to be on par to have a robust economy. 

Plus, no one said anything about it being better if we’re poorer.  You made up that strawman.

No straw man. Everything you consume that isn't produced in Canada becomes more expensive. Even stuff produced in Canada becomes more expensive if materials and equipment used to produce it are imported.
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Offline JMT

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #796 on: October 20, 2020, 05:45:48 pm »
No straw man. Everything you consume that isn't produced in Canada becomes more expensive. Even stuff produced in Canada becomes more expensive if materials and equipment used to produce it are imported.

And yet, the country overall has done exceptionally well during the low oil price phase that started in 2014. 2017 even saw our highest quarterly growth in 40 years.

Offline Montgomery

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #797 on: October 20, 2020, 05:57:21 pm »
No straw man. Everything you consume that isn't produced in Canada becomes more expensive. Even stuff produced in Canada becomes more expensive if materials and equipment used to produce it are imported.

That's ridiculous wilbur. Most raw materials can be imported into Canada at a much lower cost than Canadians can produce them.

However, I will say that it needs to be said with some qualifications. Nuanced to a level that's above your understanding on social responsibility.

I dare say that China could get a cargo ship full of lettuce here cheaper than Canada can provide us with it, and before it even wilts!
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #798 on: October 20, 2020, 06:25:03 pm »
No, the dollar increases, not so much with the economy on a grand scale, but on the price of oil.   We have a petro-currency.

I think you’re changing the story to fit your preconceived narrative.  Dollar high = economy good = Con gov’t.  Dollar low = economy bad = Trudeau.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/102015/currencies-most-affected-falling-oil-prices.asp



Yes our economy has been quite dependent on oil profits the last 20 years.  We did well through the great recession better than most because of our oil, and so did our dollar.  The past few years the price of oil is in the tank and so is our dollar.  Not a coincidence.
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Offline wilber

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #799 on: October 20, 2020, 06:38:06 pm »
That's ridiculous wilbur. Most raw materials can be imported into Canada at a much lower cost than Canadians can produce them.

However, I will say that it needs to be said with some qualifications. Nuanced to a level that's above your understanding on social responsibility.

I dare say that China could get a cargo ship full of lettuce here cheaper than Canada can provide us with it, and before it even wilts!

It doesn’t matter, if your currency drops they will cost more than they did before because they are imported. All those imported raw materials will cost more because our money is worth less. How do expensive imports help the Canadian economy if we don’t have domestic sources to replace them? It will cost our farmers even more to produce their goods. Their imported equipment will cost more. Oil is priced in USD so the diesel they use to run their equipment will cost more  and they will be less competitive? The same will go for other industries. Fishers and truckers will pay more for their equipment and fuel and the costs will all be passed on to you. How does any of this help the Canadian economy or the standard of living of Canadians?
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #800 on: October 20, 2020, 06:51:09 pm »
And yet, the country overall has done exceptionally well during the low oil price phase that started in 2014. 2017 even saw our highest quarterly growth in 40 years.

That's not true.  Our annual GDP has dropped since oil went bust in late 2014/early 2015 and has since not reached the annual GDP levels of any of the really good years we had every year from 2011 through 2014.

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp

Quarterly growth grew quickly in 2017 because the economy contracted hard in 2015-2016, and markets tend to jump quickly after a bust, but it has yet to recover fully.

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Offline JMT

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #801 on: October 20, 2020, 06:55:04 pm »
That's not true.  Our annual GDP has dropped since oil went bust in late 2014/early 2015 and has since not reached the annual GDP levels of any of the really good years we had every year from 2011 through 2014.

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp

Quarterly growth grew quickly in 2017 because the economy contracted hard in 2015-2016, and markets tend to jump quickly after a bust, but it has yet to recover fully.

Actually, it is true. Those numbers need to be placed in context. We have placed either first or second in growth in the G7 in virtually every year since 2014. Global growth slowed. It wasn't just Canada.

Oh, and you can't properly chart GDP growth in someone else's currency. We didn't have the kind of GDP shrinkage that chart implies.

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-constant-prices

The annual growth rate also disagrees with your assessment:

https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-growth-annual
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 07:08:40 pm by JMT »
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Offline JMT

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #802 on: October 20, 2020, 06:58:50 pm »
Yes our economy has been quite dependent on oil profits the last 20 years.  We did well through the great recession better than most because of our oil, and so did our dollar.  The past few years the price of oil is in the tank and so is our dollar.  Not a coincidence.

That's pretty revisionist. Ontario was a have not province for many of the oil boom years. Now it's not. Most of the growth in energy came at the expense of Canada's other industries.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #803 on: October 20, 2020, 07:14:43 pm »
You're living in a dream world if you don't see how prevalent environmental concerns have become to investors. The costs of AGW are becoming astronomical.

I'm not saying some investors don't care about the environment.  I'm saying the market doesn't work like that.  The market attempts to determine the value of each company.  If some investors flee oil companies because of environmental concerns and thus the stock price of these companies drops below what they're actually worth, other investors who only care about money will invest and drive the price up again.

Oil stock prices haven't dropped because of virtuous investors, they've dropped because of changes in the global price of oil and political difficulties getting pipelines built.

Just like most consumers and businesses aren't going to buying EV's as long as they cost twice as much as traditional vehicles.
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Offline JMT

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #804 on: October 20, 2020, 07:26:27 pm »
I'm not saying some investors don't care about the environment.  I'm saying the market doesn't work like that. 

And I'm saying that you don't realize that companies from the insurance industry to the investment industry are banking in the cost of AGW when they make their investment decisions. Oil is dying. Slowly right now, but that death is a 100% certainty.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #805 on: October 20, 2020, 07:32:55 pm »
And I'm saying that you don't realize that companies from the insurance industry to the investment industry are banking in the cost of AGW when they make their investment decisions. Oil is dying. Slowly right now, but that death is a 100% certainty.

Well insurance yes for sure, investment industry kinda, and yes oil is slowly dying which is a good thing.
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Offline wilber

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #806 on: October 20, 2020, 07:56:48 pm »
That's pretty revisionist. Ontario was a have not province for many of the oil boom years. Now it's not. Most of the growth in energy came at the expense of Canada's other industries.

Please explain how the growth in energy was at the expense of other industries.
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Offline JMT

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #807 on: October 20, 2020, 08:06:46 pm »
Please explain how the growth in energy was at the expense of other industries.

I've already posted articles and studies. You disbelieved them. I don't see the point of doing that again.
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Offline wilber

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #808 on: October 20, 2020, 08:30:13 pm »
I've already posted articles and studies. You disbelieved them. I don't see the point of doing that again.

When? Where? Then I guess you won't miss that 100 billion in exports if it disappears.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: No llores por mí Alberta
« Reply #809 on: October 20, 2020, 08:36:14 pm »
That's pretty revisionist. Ontario was a have not province for many of the oil boom years. Now it's not. Most of the growth in energy came at the expense of Canada's other industries.

What does any of that have to do with oil helping us through the recession?  You're the revisionist, you don't like oil and will spin things accordingly any way you can because it doesn't fit your agenda.

Oil is dirty, it would be better if it never existed and we all drove electric cars, but it has helped our economy, those are facts.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley
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