Author Topic: No llores por mí Alberta (Read 34849 times)

JMT · « **Reply #750 on:** September 30, 2020, 10:07:54 pm »

Quote from: Gorgeous Graham on September 28, 2020, 12:47:12 am

Yes because profits have been dramatically reduced due to falling oil prices plus supply can't expand to markets due to pipeline politics. Anyone would be a fool to invest in the Alberta oil industry, it's been decimated.

The financials and asset managers are abandoning oil in general. They don't want to be seen furthering the destruction of the planet.

cybercoma · « **Reply #751 on:** October 01, 2020, 02:21:47 pm »

Quote from: wilber on September 27, 2020, 07:59:18 pm

I'm talking about the revenues Ottawa has to spend.

Like the revenues they're going to need to spend to clean up the environmental disaster that is Alberta when these companies run out of markets for their products as the rest of the world moves on?

wilber · « **Reply #752 on:** October 01, 2020, 04:08:28 pm »

Ottawa has received well over 500 billion more in revenues from Alberta tax payers than the received in return over the past several decades that have been spent in other provinces. Cry me a river.

Squidward von Squidderson · « **Reply #753 on:** October 01, 2020, 05:16:06 pm »

Quote from: wilber on October 01, 2020, 04:08:28 pm

Ottawa has received well over 500 billion more in revenues from Alberta tax payers than the received in return over the past several decades that have been spent in other provinces. Cry me a river.

So that means taxpayers should be on the hook for environmental cleanup when corporations have profited to the tune of billions every year by extracting OUR resources?

That’s fuckin’ criminal.

JMT · « **Reply #754 on:** October 01, 2020, 07:40:45 pm »

Quote from: Gorgeous Graham on September 28, 2020, 12:53:34 am

The AB oil industry collapse has hurt federal government tax revenues, the Canadian dollar, the TSX and retired people's RRSP's, and the overall Canadian economy. These are facts. C'est la vie.

Actually, those aren't facts. High oil prices caused Dutch disease. Ontario suffered partly because Alberta prospered. It doesn't anymore. At this point, oil is an insignificant part of our GDP and outside of COVID, we're doing fine.

wilber · « **Reply #755 on:** October 01, 2020, 07:42:44 pm »

Quote from: the_squid on October 01, 2020, 05:16:06 pm

So that means taxpayers should be on the hook for environmental cleanup when corporations have profited to the tune of billions every year by extracting OUR resources?

That’s fuckin’ criminal.

Ottawa was making tones of those resources, doesn't it have any responsibility? It's not like they haven't known about this for a long time but as long as the gravy train was rolling, they were fine with it?

wilber · « **Reply #756 on:** October 01, 2020, 07:44:16 pm »

Quote from: JMT on October 01, 2020, 07:40:45 pm

Actually, those aren't facts. High oil prices caused Dutch disease. Ontario suffered partly because Alberta prospered. It doesn't anymore. At this point, oil is an insignificant part of our GDP and outside of COVID, we're doing fine.

The are the facts. How did Ontario suffer because Alberta prospered? Since when does one part of the country suffer when another prospers?

JMT · « **Reply #757 on:** October 01, 2020, 07:47:42 pm »

Quote from: wilber on October 01, 2020, 07:44:16 pm

The are the facts. How did Ontario suffer because Alberta prospered? Since when does one part of the country suffer when another prospers?

Without using the phrase Dutch Disease, the OECD report says “income has shifted towards the resource-rich western provinces, while the regional economies of Ontario and Quebec are still adapting to increase external competition resulting from the high exchange rate.”

“The export-oriented manufacturing sector had by 2011 shrunk sharply to only 12.6% of total value added, down from a peak of 18.6% in 2000. Its share of employment has also fallen substantially over the past decade from 15.2% to 10.2%, and somewhat more than in the United States,” the report says.

“Both outcomes have been clearly correlated with exchange-rate developments. Regional growth disparities … mirror these divergences in sectoral activity: the resource-rich provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland and Labrador have enjoyed the largest per capita income gains during the past decade, whereas growth has been more sluggish in the manufacturing centre of Ontario.”

https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/oecd-sees-signs-of-dutch-disease-affecting-canada

----

Thankfully, that situation rectified itself. The rest of the country (BC, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec) have actually done far better overall under low oil than when oil was high.

JMT · « **Reply #758 on:** October 01, 2020, 07:48:34 pm »

In a new report, the bank has come out squarely in favour of the "Dutch Disease" theory — the notion that Canada's oil and gas boom has driven up the loonie to the point it's hurting other export-dependent parts of the economy.

“Ten per cent of our economy is due to energy. That’s a relatively small share, but when you look at our currency we’ve seen an increasing correlation between the Canadian dollar and the price of energy,” BofA Merrill Lynch economist Emanuella Enenajor, a former CIBC economist and one of the authors of the new report, told BNN.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/09/10/dutch-disease-canada_n_5798954.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAK8azDl0FSNF_Uo6XSvvq2HKUJGoGVBkCM-tJH3EeiBQtyX7qrHmVUzJL6qrVAR9dUexLai5GAo2Lp4_TyiGkM1OZb-dSRzNHLSXCa2CAsma-I0ewC8ivudKEIT4_JRBG8a1Vg0gYAbFt2EOx53k-fvsl9C6oFAVjaFgLHufcoBz

wilber · « **Reply #759 on:** October 01, 2020, 07:51:19 pm »

Since when do higher incomes in one part of the country damage another part. They proved the tax revenues that benefit the whole country.

So a 75 cent dollar is too high for you. How much poorer do we all have to be to satisfy you?

JMT · « **Reply #760 on:** October 01, 2020, 07:52:58 pm »

Then came 2017:

Ontario's economy is surging after years of lagging behind the oil-producing provinces.

Don't believe it? There's plenty of evidence.

Canada's big banks are forecasting that Ontario will lead the country in economic growth this year or be within a hair of the top of the pack. Unemployment sits at its lowest level in 16 years. And that economic success is being felt across a range of sectors, including manufacturing, real estate, finance and technology.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-economy-provincial-economic-growth-forecast-1.4131428#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20single%20economic,driving%20force%20for%20the%20country.

We're not 'poor' due to exchange rates. Canada's are not less well off than they were in the past. In fact, poverty, pre covid, is near record low levels.

Queefer Sutherland · « **Reply #761 on:** October 01, 2020, 07:56:11 pm »

Quote from: JMT on September 30, 2020, 10:07:54 pm

The financials and asset managers are abandoning oil in general. They don't want to be seen furthering the destruction of the planet.

Conveniently when global oil prices and profits plummeted? Provide evidence that the Alberta and global oil markets have tanked primarily because of ethical concerns from investors.

Name one time in human history that market investors abandoned a company or industry due to ethical/moral reasons rather than profit.

Defense companies, gun manufacturers, cigarette companies etc all kill many millions of people, and yet they still get investors if the market trends lead to profit. Most investors only care about profit. That's a major reason why climate change is a problem in the first place.

JMT · « **Reply #762 on:** October 01, 2020, 07:57:14 pm »

Quote from: Gorgeous Graham on October 01, 2020, 07:56:11 pm

Conveniently when global oil prices and profits plummeted? Provide evidence that the Alberta and global oil markets have tanked primarily because of ethical concerns from investors.

Name one time in human history that market investors abandoned a company or industry due to ethical/moral reasons rather than profit.

Defense companies, gun manufacturers, cigarette companies etc all kill many millions of people, and yet they still get investors if the market trends lead to profit. Most investors only care about profit. That's a major reason why climate change is a problem in the first place.

Investors realize that there is far more cost to destroying the planet. These costs are material, not moral.

JMT · « **Reply #763 on:** October 01, 2020, 07:59:29 pm »

Quote from: wilber on October 01, 2020, 07:51:19 pm

Since when do higher incomes in one part of the country damage another part. They proved the tax revenues that benefit the whole country.

So a 75 cent dollar is too high for you. How much poorer do we all have to be to satisfy you?

In the middle of low oil, in 2017, we had 'stellar growth:'

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/press/newsrelease/2017/12/21/year-in-review-and-look-ahead-canadian-economy-delivered-stellar-growth-in-2017-but-will-slow-significantly-in-2018?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

wilber · « **Reply #764 on:** October 01, 2020, 08:04:38 pm »

Quote from: JMT on October 01, 2020, 07:59:29 pm

In the middle of low oil, in 2017, we had 'stellar growth:'

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/press/newsrelease/2017/12/21/year-in-review-and-look-ahead-canadian-economy-delivered-stellar-growth-in-2017-but-will-slow-significantly-in-2018?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Maybe you should read the article. It says the growth was fuelled largely by the energy and service sectors.

Quote

Canada’s trade sector fell off course in 2017 and will continue to face hurdles in 2018. Following tepid growth of 0.9 per cent in 2017, total export volumes are forecast to increase by 1.6 per cent in 2018, fueled largely by the energy and service sectors. While the non-energy merchandise export sector will contribute to overall export growth in 2018, several sectors continue to face hurdles and expand at a sluggish pace. Most notable is the ailing automotive sector, which will hit the brakes in 2018. In addition, greater U.S. protectionist measures will continue to be a dark cloud that hangs over the entire sector.

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Author Topic: No llores por mí Alberta (Read 34849 times)

JMT

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cybercoma

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wilber

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Squidward von Squidderson

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JMT

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wilber

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JMT

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