Author Topic: More pipeline troubles in BC  (Read 228 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: More pipeline troubles in BC
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2019, 08:39:12 pm »
IOW, you want to put an end all major projects in this country. No more resource development. No more roads. No more railways. No more powerlines. Because that is the inevitable consequence if you give small groups the power to block large projects. It is a ridiculous position. No country of 30,000,000+ can function effectively if important infrastructure can be blocked by small groups of people. That is why the SCC has gone out of its way to explicitly state that consent is not required but the government has show there is a really good reason for pushing a project through. Unfortunately, way too many people get all twisted in knots over historical wrongs and simply do not think through the consequences of giving aboriginals vetos.

Aside: why should aboriginals be the only one to get a veto. Why don't we give vetos to all landowners? Do you really think that would be good for society?

Another aside: race based rights only create racism and resentment. There we be no reconciliation as long as people think that race based rights are solution.

You think there are no more major projects ongoing? Here's a list of a few, and luckily some of them involve clean energy.

https://top100projects.ca/2018filters/

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: More pipeline troubles in BC
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2019, 10:49:22 pm »
IOW, you want to put an end all major projects in this country. No more resource development. No more roads. No more railways. No more powerlines. Because that is the inevitable consequence if you give small groups the power to block large projects.

I suppose that is true enough across the country.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline ?Impact

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Re: More pipeline troubles in BC
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2019, 03:16:59 pm »
That quote completely supports my claim that aboriginal  title is a form of landownership...

Obviously you didn't read it. You keep propagating the false equivalence that Aboriginals are just another landowner.

Where Aboriginal title has been established, the Crown must not only comply with its procedural duties, but must also justify any incursions on Aboriginal title lands by ensuring that the proposed government action is substantively consistent with the requirements of s. 35  of the Constitution Act, 1982 . This requires demonstrating both a compelling and substantial governmental objective and that the government action is consistent with the fiduciary duty owed by the Crown to the Aboriginal group.  This means the government must act in a way that respects the fact that Aboriginal title is a group interest that inheres in present and future generations, and the duty infuses an obligation of proportionality into the justification process: the incursion must be necessary to achieve the government’s goal (rational connection); the government must go no further than necessary to achieve it (minimal impairment); and the benefits that may be expected to flow from that goal must not be outweighed by adverse effects on the Aboriginal interest (proportionality of impact). Allegations of infringement or failure to adequately consult can be avoided by obtaining the consent of the interested Aboriginal group.  This s. 35 framework permits a principled reconciliation of Aboriginal rights with the interests of all Canadians.

Offline TimG

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Re: More pipeline troubles in BC
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2019, 03:51:18 pm »
Obviously you didn't read it. You keep propagating the false equivalence that Aboriginals are just another landowner.
Aboriginal title is obviously not exactly the same as fee simple title but my point was not that they are exactly the same but that both are forms are ownership subject to the laws and constitution of Canada. i.e. Canada is the sovereign state and aboriginals have rights within that state. Furthermore, I made the point that aboriginals cannot block projects in the public interest - a point which your quote supports.

Lastly, when the government needs access to private lands it also must meet certain conditions which are not unlike the conditions on aboriginal title. i.e. the government can't just take your land - it must show a public benefit and offer you a fair price. As a general rule governments find it easier to "obtain consent" from the land owner instead of simply invoking its power of expropriation. IOW, aboriginal title is a lot closer to fee simple title in that respect too.

But none of these process requirements change the fact that the government of Canada has to have to power to decide when and where projects in the public interest are built and people who think that aboriginals are entitled to a veto don't know what the law is nor do they understand that such powers would only make public infrastructure projects impossible in the future.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 04:03:02 pm by TimG »