Author Topic: LNG a stranded asset?  (Read 2116 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2019, 07:32:32 pm »
how do you know the origin isn't Ontario tax dollars... or Quebec tax dollars... or...

and here I thought you'd been schooled enough on how equalization actually works!  ;D
Some does but most comes from Albertans.
https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201701E
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 08:23:18 pm by wilber »
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Offline waldo

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2019, 11:26:35 pm »
Some does but most comes from Albertans.
https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201701E

member wilber just scores an 'own goal'!  ;D Your linked article graphs are all 'per-capita'... not total amount

geezaz - riddle me this: do you think there's a chance that the total amount of personal (federal) income tax paid by Ontario residents might be... could be... as large a total amount as that paid by Alberta residents? Cause, ya see, the total amounts paid by residents of the respective provinces are very close.

as I said, you have no way of knowing the source origin of federal general revenue that ultimately becomes a part of any transfer expenditure... be it a health related transfer, a social related transfer or an equalization payment transfer. You keep embarrassing yourself each and every time you beak-off about Alberta financing equalization.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2019, 01:57:12 pm »
The origins are easy to find. 20 billion is sent to have not provinces in equalization, Albertan's have been sending more than 20 billion in tax revenues to Ottawa than Alberta gets back in spending. I've posted the links several times.

... and many have addressed that several times as well, but you are not listening.

Offline kimmy

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2019, 02:09:39 pm »
Is LNG is a stranded asset?

Chevron to sell its 50% stake in Kitimat LNG project as it writes down assets by $10B
  Move to exit project a dash of 'cold water' for gas industry

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/chevron-kitimat-lng-selling-stake-1.5392105

A reader comments:
 
"Energy storage is already 1/4 the cost of operating any of these now stranded assets. The bubble is about to pop and they know it. It makes no sense entering into a 40 years commitment on a terminal that will likely be rendered useless within 5-10 years."

When John Horgan was opposition leader, he thought it was a terrible idea and said Christy Clark was building a boondoggle.  Once he got into office, he was only to happy to take credit for it, get pictures shaking hands with Justin as the project was approved, and all that. "The biggest project in Canadian history! $40 billion dollars! Putting British Columbians to work!" etc.  That's a politics issue.

From the economics side, the project doesn't make a lot of sense *right now*. At the moment, prices for LNG are extremely low.  If prices stay at this level, it's hard to imagine when the project will recoup its investment.  But people aren't going to stop using LNG overnight.  Other countries should be using more LNG and less coal to meet their energy requirements with less pollution. The world still needs this product.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline wilber

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2019, 05:32:28 pm »
member wilber just scores an 'own goal'!  ;D Your linked article graphs are all 'per-capita'... not total amount

geezaz - riddle me this: do you think there's a chance that the total amount of personal (federal) income tax paid by Ontario residents might be... could be... as large a total amount as that paid by Alberta residents? Cause, ya see, the total amounts paid by residents of the respective provinces are very close.

as I said, you have no way of knowing the source origin of federal general revenue that ultimately becomes a part of any transfer expenditure... be it a health related transfer, a social related transfer or an equalization payment transfer. You keep embarrassing yourself each and every time you beak-off about Alberta financing equalization.

Yes per capita. Per capita, Albertans contribute more to federal coffers than any other Canadians. Fools like you think that money will still flow into Ottawa to be distributed to other provinces if all those high paying jobs disappear.
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Offline waldo

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2019, 05:52:04 pm »
Yes per capita. Per capita, Albertans contribute more to federal coffers than any other Canadians. Fools like you think that money will still flow into Ottawa to be distributed to other provinces if all those high paying jobs disappear.

yes - your 'per capita' own goal! Again, your equalization fail! Again, in your continued expressed stooopidity you're now purposely trolling in your equalization related statements. Expressed stooopid statements cause, surely... you're not actually stooopid enough to believe what you keep saying, right?

for all your nattering, blathering and hyperbole, you've never extended upon the fact that wages are higher in Alberta - you've never delineated the respective job sectors of your described, "disappearing high paying jobs". And more pointedly what you believe... attribute... the disappearing of said jobs to.

and, again... you can't qualify that Alberta money you state flows into Ottawa for distribution to other provinces... it's like me stating its Ontario residents sourced money (from general revenue) being distributed... or Quebec residents sourced money (from general revenues) being distributed... or...

Offline wilber

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2019, 06:32:32 pm »
yes - your 'per capita' own goal! Again, your equalization fail! Again, in your continued expressed stooopidity you're now purposely trolling in your equalization related statements. Expressed stooopid statements cause, surely... you're not actually stooopid enough to believe what you keep saying, right?

for all your nattering, blathering and hyperbole, you've never extended upon the fact that wages are higher in Alberta - you've never delineated the respective job sectors of your described, "disappearing high paying jobs". And more pointedly what you believe... attribute... the disappearing of said jobs to.

and, again... you can't qualify that Alberta money you state flows into Ottawa for distribution to other provinces... it's like me stating its Ontario residents sourced money (from general revenue) being distributed... or Quebec residents sourced money (from general revenues) being distributed... or...

Table B – Equalization payments as a percentage of total provincial revenue %

                               2017/18             2016/17        2015/16
Québec                      9.4               9.0            8.7
Manitoba                     11.8              11.5          12.1
Nova Scotia             15.6              16.1           17.0
New Brunswick             18.5              18.                19.6
Ontario                      1.0                1.7            1.9
Prince Edward Island     20.6              20.5           20.7
Total                              4.4                4.5              4.6

Where do you think those payments that form a percentage of provincial revenues come from, the friggin tooth fairy? And why don't any of the other provinces show a percentage of revenues coming from equalization.

Do I really have to explain to you that higher paid jobs pay more taxes?

The dumber you get the more obnoxious you become.

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Offline waldo

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2019, 06:57:51 pm »
Where do you think those payments that form a percentage of provincial revenues come from, the friggin tooth fairy?

And why don't any of the other provinces show a percentage of revenues coming from equalization.

although you've been schooled on this many times over, the waldo is more than willing to extend another burn: those equalization payments come from federal general revenues. As for which provinces receive equalization transfer payments:

Quote
If, according to the prevailing equalization formula, a province has a below-average ability to generate own-source revenues, then it is eligible for an Equalization payment to make up the difference. If a province's revenue-generating ability exceeds the 10-province average, then it is not eligible for an Equalization payment.

The dumber you get the more obnoxious you become.

please! Stop embarrassing yourself: How Does Equalization Work?

Offline wilber

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2019, 07:23:37 pm »
although you've been schooled on this many times over, the waldo is more than willing to extend another burn: those equalization payments come from federal general revenues. As for which provinces receive equalization transfer payments:

please! Stop embarrassing yourself: How Does Equalization Work?

The waldo thinks federal revenues appear out of thin air.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 10:51:57 pm by wilber »
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Offline waldo

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2019, 12:42:45 am »
The waldo thinks federal revenues appear out of thin air.

member wilber thinks federal revenues, notably the 2 largest sources - personal & corporate income tax, only appear out of Alberta air


Offline wilber

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2019, 06:47:56 am »
member wilber thinks federal revenues, notably the 2 largest sources - personal & corporate income tax, only appear out of Alberta air

The waldo thinks if the provinces that don’t receive equalization payments didn’t exist, the feds would just conjure the money out of thin air and keep making the payments as if nothing happened.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 06:51:07 am by wilber »
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Offline wilber

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2019, 09:24:47 am »
I'll agree with the waldo that equalization is just a shuffling of federal tax revenues by a formula based on the ability to tax and is a bit of a red herring because it doesn't reflect all federal spending. As a result, you can have anomalies like Ontario which has been receiving equalization in spite of the fact it sends more to Ottawa in revenues than it gets back in spending and NFLD which receives more in federal spending than it sends, yet gets no equalization. Still, the money has to come from somewhere.

I refer the waldo to figure 2 in the link I provided which gives federal revenues by province compared to total federal spending including equalization, and ask one simple question. If you remove all the provinces that send more to Ottawa than they get back in federal spending, where does the money come from for all the provinces that get more in federal spending than they send in revenues?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 09:40:17 am by wilber »
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2019, 02:58:53 pm »
where does the money come from for all the provinces that get more in federal spending than they send in revenues?

Taxpayers (individual & corporate) in Ontario contribute the most - always have, always will.

Offline wilber

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2019, 03:21:41 pm »
Taxpayers (individual & corporate) in Ontario contribute the most - always have, always will.

Per capita, Albertans pay more, both individual and corporate. That is clear in the tables.


From the tables it also looks like Albertans contribute about 5000 more per capita  than the province gets back in revenues, 5000 X Alberta's population of 4.37 million comes to 21. 8 billion. It looks like Ontarians contribute about 1200 more per capita than the province gets back in revenues. 1200 X Ontario's population of 14.57 million comes to 17.5 billion.
 
So Ontario doesn't contribute the most in total either.

You didn't answer my question.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 03:44:51 pm by wilber »
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: LNG a stranded asset?
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2019, 03:50:38 pm »
So Ontario doesn't contribute the most in total either.

Your math is failing. I posted a few weeks ago the Statscan table sources that detail where revenue is collected. Ontario always had and always will be the largest contributor, and only occasionally gets a smidgen back through equalization.