Author Topic: Liberals reject motion to denounce ISIS  (Read 387 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Liberals reject motion to denounce ISIS
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2017, 05:11:22 pm »
Criticize terrorism, murder, ****, misogyny, domestic violence, intolerance towards gay people, and racism.

Criticizing Islam misses the point and exposes people’s bigotry because they only show concern for the above issues when they’re done by Muslims. When people are hyper-concerned about Muslims, to the point that they don’t even recognize that there are large cultural differences between Muslims from different places around the world, then they are absolutely Islamophobic. They have an irrational concern for everything done by Muslims but downplay or ignore the same things done by others. Instead of being concerned about the issues that they should be concerned about, they’re concerned about Muslims and Islam instead of the violence and intolerance.

People should have every right to criticize Islam or any religion.  The difference is when you start being prejudice against a diverse group of people (Muslims) because of their beliefs (which often vary greatly).
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guest7

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Re: Liberals reject motion to denounce ISIS
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2017, 07:10:12 pm »
The problem is not criticing governments who impose laws based on regressive religious teachings, or politicians and leaders who support that.  It's the assumption that because an individual is Muslim, they must also support those things.  And that happens all the time, on these forums and out in the world.   

So if there is a new story about a Muslim beating his wife because its what he did back home, the narrative becomes "Muslims are misogynistic due to their religion" rather than about a single dirtbag who beats his wife.  If a news story comes out about a Muslim man who doesn't beat his wife, the narrative becomes the media/government is trying to hide the facts from us because a Muslim man who doesn't beat his wife is an aberration.  Its the assumption that an individual who wears a headscarf must also hate certain other groups, and examples to the contrary are dismissed as irrelevant.  Its the repitition of single news story about a gay person beong thrown off the roof in a Muslim-majority country provides as proof that all Muslims are homophobic.

Certainly one can criticize Islam for being steeped in traditional anti-women and patriarchal attitides.  One can criticize governments who use that to implement oppressive laws.  One can condemn individuals who act out of hate and fear.

But convicting every Muslim of those sins on no other basis than that they are Muslim isn't a valid criticism.  Dismissing examples contrary to the negative stereotypes as aberrations isn't valid criticism, doesn't recognize those Muslims who are risking freedom and even their lives to bring Islam into the modern world and is insulting to every law-abiding and progressive Muslim curtently in Canada.

Right, but if the only time criticising Islam is bad is when it means you think all Muslims are awful then that doesn't apply to me.  I'll continue with my criticism unabated happy in the knowledge that there is nothing Islamophobic about it at all.  And I will wholeheartedly join you in condemning anyone who thinks all Muslims are the same.  Because obviously, they are not. 

Offline Rue

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Re: Liberals reject motion to denounce ISIS
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2017, 01:27:28 pm »
Here's a simple explanation of the difference: a bill has the potential to become law. A motion is only an opinion. Big difference.

I just read as usual another absolutely incorrect comment from Omni.  Motions are not just an opinion, they are done to generate the potential to issue a bill to become a law. Bills when passed have already got to the process where they went from motions to the 4 step process of becoming a law.

Omni's artificial attempt to suggest there is no connect between a motion and a potential bill is false.  The attempt to suggest the motion about Islamophobia is only a motion and will not generate a law is bullshit. Its a feeler to see how far the Liberals can go down the road modifying freedom of speech laws and hate laws. It was a deliberate partisan reaction to pander to Muslims feeling upset over a hate crime in their mosque in Quebec City. It was crass and pandering and its what the Liberals do, pander with emotions.

In fact I will say it right out, Trudeau is a **** of a politician. He has no problem pandering to Muslims with an Islamophobia comment in Parliament and stay silent when mullahs in mosques he visited now have mullahs inciting hate comments about Jews. He has said not a peep to the same mosques when they spew out anti-semitic cries to kill Jews, and define women and gays in hateful ways.

Trudeau poses one day with extremist women-Jew-gay hating mullahs then the next poses as gay friendly and a feminist. That makes him a pathetic ****, a crass prostitute who engages in blow jobs, i.e.,  goes where the wind blows him. Whoever he thinks he can shed a tear in a photo op you will find him.

This a-wipe of a Prime Minister is special. He shows up not once but at two Holocaust ceremonies and never refers to how Jews died in it and presents a monument to the Holocaust with no reference to Jews.

Yah some of us get it. He's a crass shmuck. He poses with anyone he can exploit and pander for votes. Period.

One last thing. He was asked what the phack does he think he's doing claiming he can repatriot and rehabilitate ISIL members coming back to Canada.

His response? He played the Muslim card. He claimed when Scheer questioned him on that it made Scheer anti Muslim. Horse crap. It makes Trudeau a user of Muslims. In one foul stench Trudeau equated all Muslims in Canada as synomous with ISIL supporters returning to Canada and suggesting if a Canadian has issues with ISIL supporters it makes them anti Muslim. That means Muslim Canadians as well as all other Canadians who question his moronic beliefs in rehabilitating and readmitting ISIL terrorists is anti Muslim.

Its Trudeau not the opposition playing the shrill, pandering, exploitative hate cards.

Trudeau is counting on minorities voting him back into power by pandering to ethnic groups.

We shall see if it works. This is one "ethnic" who says, phack off to you Justin you are the most crass of exploitative bigots. Kiss my kosher buttox.

Some of you engaging in your politically correct prose need to get real. Trudeau is a slimy user of what he thinks are "ethnic" peoplde. You want to play suck up to Justin, go for it.
You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.

guest4

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Re: Liberals reject motion to denounce ISIS
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2017, 11:14:24 am »


Omni's artificial attempt to suggest there is no connect between a motion and a potential bill is false.  The attempt to suggest the motion about Islamophobia is only a motion and will not generate a law is bullshit. Its a feeler to see how far the Liberals can go down the road modifying freedom of speech laws and hate laws. It was a deliberate partisan reaction to pander to Muslims feeling upset over a hate crime in their mosque in Quebec City. It was crass and pandering and its what the Liberals do, pander with emotions.
 


Did you consider the (useless) Ottawa Protocol a "feeler to see how far the government can go down the road modifying freedom of speech"?  Some people did; you can find articles about it -- like this one:

Quote
The logic of the Ottawa Protocol frames those who focus on Israeli state policy as racist. It includes a clause that states criticism of Israel is acceptable, but then follows that singling out Israel for criticism is hateful.  This contradictory messaging sets precedent for the erosion of free speech in the media and especially on university campuses.
(http://vancouver.mediacoop.ca/blog/bahtman/5130)
(http://seriouslyfreespeech.ca/cpcca/icca-ottawa-protocol/)

We could rewrite that same paragraph to make it relevant today:
The logic of the Ottawa Protocol M103 motion frames those who focus on Israeli state policy Islam as a threat as racist Islamaphobic. It includes a clause that states criticism of Israel is acceptable all religious discrimination, but then follows that singling out Israel Islam for criticism is hateful as needing special consideration.  This contradictory messaging sets precedent for the erosion of free speech in the media and especially on university campuses for individual Canadians for expressing valid criticisms.

Also:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/will-m103-be-the-first-hashtag-nominated-for-a-hugo-award/article34204500/




Offline SirJohn

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Re: Liberals reject motion to denounce ISIS
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2017, 11:56:03 am »

I am curious as to which portions were unacceptable.  I wonder if the specific mention of Omar Khadr and his settlement was all it was. Suppose the motion read as follows:

(a) condemn the horrific acts committed by ISIS;

(b) acknowledge that individuals who joined ISIS fighters are complicit in these horrific acts and pose a danger to Canadians;

(c) call on the government to bring to justice and prosecute any ISIS fighter returning to Canada; and


That last one. The government does not wish to engage in a series of prosecutions of Muslims which they fear might cause the Muslim community to turn against them as they did the Conservatives. The Liberals have no desire to get a reputation as tough on terrorism, or tough on Muslim extremism, or as a party which even cares about such things. They got almost all the Muslim vote last time around and they want to keep it.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Goddess

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Re: Liberals reject motion to denounce ISIS
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2017, 12:11:13 pm »
That last one. The government does not wish to engage in a series of prosecutions of Muslims which they fear might cause the Muslim community to turn against them as they did the Conservatives. The Liberals have no desire to get a reputation as tough on terrorism, or tough on Muslim extremism, or as a party which even cares about such things. They got almost all the Muslim vote last time around and they want to keep it.

Apparently, according to the Liberals - religious extremists who burn people alive, throw gays off of buildings and buy and sell women as sex slaves can be cured by attending poetry readings.
"A religion without a Goddess is half-way to atheism."
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