Author Topic: gun control  (Read 670 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2018, 08:10:40 pm »
Irrelevant.

To you perhaps. I prefer a leader who can identify a problem and do something to correct as opposed to pretending it doesn't exist.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2018, 03:34:30 pm »
I'm tired of the BS so I'm going to be blunt.  We don't have a gun problem, we have a "stupid people" problem. The root problem is that we have more and more people let into Canada from countries

......

Your entire post is based on the premise that guns are used by immigrants and we never had a problem with guns until “those people” showed up.

This is utter nonsense.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2018, 07:38:10 pm »
Your entire post is based on the premise that guns are used by immigrants and we never had a problem with guns until “those people” showed up.

This is utter nonsense.

I never said we never had a problem with guns until immigrants showed up, that's a strawman.  Your attempts to paint me as a xenophobe racist is ridiculous.  If you look at the stats, most gun crime in these big cities like Toronto are committed by young black men and men of colour from poor and often broken homes.  That goes for white people who deal drugs and gang bang too.  It's not a question of race, it's a question of behaviour.  Young men who are filled with p!ss and testosterone from poor homes with emotional issues are going to shoot each other & others, along with other really stupid choices in life.

The problem isn't "immigrants".  The problem is poorly educated young men from poor dysfunctional homes who make bad decisions.  I'm not saying ban immigrants, or black people, or people from certain countries, I'm saying ban the bad seeds who have backgrounds with poor likelihoods of success.  What I am saying is that people from certain cultures under certain conditions are statistically far more likely to commit gun violence.  Black people make up 14% of the USA population but are responsible for 52.5% of the gun homicides in the country.  If you can consider the vast majority of these are committed by males, that's only 7% of the population, and if you consider it's mostly poorly educated young black men coming from low incomes you narrow the population down even more.  It's no different throughout sub-Saharan Africa, the Caribbean, or anywhere else, and they need to own it, not glorify it or always blame others which will solve nothing (though some of that can be true), and when you acknowledge the scope of the problem you can begin to fix it.

Gang violence is epidemic in Latin America, highest murder rates in the world, and most gang members in the USA are Hispanic.   Pull the PC wool from your eyes or go ahead and try to see if restricting more legal handguns in Canada will fix the murder problem (it may help it slightly).

We can't ban people born here, including white people, so the rest of my earlier suggestions to help people in these situations apply to them too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0dCvQdt5XI&feature=youtu.be&t=177
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2018, 07:49:25 pm »
I never said we never had a problem with guns until immigrants showed up, that's a strawman. 

...

You literally said that immigrants are the problem with gun violence....


Quote
The root problem is that we have more and more people let into Canada from countries that already have very bad gun violence issues, & then it becomes our problem.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2018, 08:19:42 pm »
You literally said that immigrants are the problem with gun violence....

That's not exactly what he said.  I've gone into the history of urban gangs before, but summarizing.

We had little in the way of gang violence up through the early to mid seventies. Chief Vince Bevans, who was the Chief of police in Ottawa did a report in the nineties on this, and remarked on how gun violence was virtually unknown back then. But then we started bringing in these temporary foreign workers, mostly  Jamaican (Haitian in Quebec)  ladies to be housekeepers and babysitters for rich people, or at least, the upper middle class. The Liberals then decided to let them apply for citizenship. They did, and the first thing they did, of course, was apply to sponsor their kids. Their kids had not seen mom for years, except for rare visits, and had been raised by grannie. Suddenly they yanked up north to live with a woman they hardly know in a country they don't know, and where it's cold as **** and where their educational achievements were sub-par. Naturally a certain number of them resented this, and naturally, teenage boys hung around together, resentful and angry, and doing poorly at school - with mom still working full time and no father.

Jamaican street gangs were born (and Haitans in Montreal). Gang violence took on a whole new meaning because these teenagers had been brought up in lands where violence was endemic and brutal. The more that came over the more gang members. By the 1990s we already had a full throated street gang problem with shootouts and drive bys. It was a similar problem when we started bringing over piles of Somalians. Again, you had young people ripped from everything they knew into a cold environment where they were well below the curve in school, felt like outsiders (because they WERE) hung around together, and began to get into trouble. Thus was 'swarming' born. Out west it's a different matter, with kids from different asian countries doing different kinds of things. Then the natives started to get in on the act out west, forming their own version of the Crips and Bloods.

Now the gangs are formed, and infest certain low income neighborhoods. And they recruit among young minority men in those neighborhoods.

Most of the gun violence comes from these groups.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2018, 08:22:07 pm »
You literally said that immigrants are the problem with gun violence....

Certain immigrants as I specifically defined, yes, absolutely.  But that's not what you said, again, a strawman.  You said:

Quote
Your entire post is based on the premise that guns are used by immigrants and we never had a problem with guns until “those people” showed up.

Wrong, i never ever said anything remotely like "we never had a problem with guns before X showed up".  However, a high % of the gun violence we're talking about in our cities is largely due to certain immigrants from certain social-economic backgrounds as I've very specifically already defined, and that is proven clearly in the statistics.  You're trying to label me a xenophobe racist and it's BS.  I'm not trying to discriminate against "immigrants", I'm trying to discriminate against specific immigrants from violent parts of the world who take part in bad things &/or make bad decisions that is probable to lead to more bad things and bad decisions.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2018, 08:32:31 pm »
We had little in the way of gang violence up through the early to mid seventies.

Gun violence peaked in the mid 70's. We have had a recent uptick in the past few years but we are still below that level. Youth gangs are a huge problem in Saskatchewan, at about 5 times the national average (although not as bad as the US which is 10 times the Canadian average). The racial demographics are: African Canadian (25%), First Nations (21%), and Caucasian (18%).

Offline Omni

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2018, 08:36:21 pm »
Gun violence peaked in the mid 70's. We have had a recent uptick in the past few years but we are still below that level. Youth gangs are a huge problem in Saskatchewan, at about 5 times the national average (although not as bad as the US which is 10 times the Canadian average). The racial demographics are: African Canadian (25%), First Nations (21%), and Caucasian (18%).

argus seems to prefer assumptions over facts.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2018, 08:52:12 pm »
Gun violence peaked in the mid 70's.

Where? Not in Ottawa

The history of street gangs in Ottawa is laid out in a 2004 city police report from then-chief Vince Bevan.
In the late 1960s and early ’70s, the two prominent gangs were the Squirrels and the Yohawks.
They appeared limited to minor property crime and assaults — a few owned knives, but seldom used them.

"The rules of engagement for disputes between rival groups were clear; fights were one-on-one, and when someone was down, the fight was over," the report reads.
By the 1990s, that had changed.


https://ottawasun.com/2015/10/30/the-evolution-of-ottawas-gang-scene/wcm/f565d76d-4eca-485b-8277-264067dfcaeb
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2018, 11:21:04 pm »
A rating of "dumb" means "you win and i'm too lazy or incapable of responding with logic/evidence and not insults".

So i win this thread.  Woo hoo! 

Jk y'all, G.night folks!
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline Omni

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2018, 11:28:04 pm »
A rating of "dumb" means "you win and i'm too lazy or incapable of responding with logic/evidence and not insults".

So i win this thread.  Woo hoo! 

Jk y'all, G.night folks!

It means exactly what it says. No more time to waste.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2018, 10:23:54 am »
It means exactly what it says. No more time to waste.

It's childish and insulting and lazy and calling someone's opinion "dumb" has no place in debate.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline wilber

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2018, 10:45:28 am »
Most of the current gang shootings in our community involve young South  Asian men who were born here and live in middle class suburban neighbourhoods. They aren’t poor and had the same education opportunities as other kids. I think it stems at least partly from a boys can do no wrong culture.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline the_squid

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2020, 03:15:23 am »
I don’t know what kind of gun(s) the shooter used in the killing spree from yesterday, but here’s my common sense gun control ideas.

Guns have a legitimate purpose for hunting and maybe animal control.
Handguns are out.  These are not for hunting.
Shotguns - limited to a single or double barrel with single or 2 shots.  No more pump action.
Rifles - Single shot rifles only.  No more clips. 

This will have the effect of limiting the amount of damage a shooter can do, while still preserving hunting in the country.

I am a firearms owner.  Pump action shotgun for ducks and bear defence, a .410 for birds, a Sako .223 for deer. 

Offline eyeball

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Re: Liberal caucus and gun control
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2020, 12:26:30 pm »
I don’t know what kind of gun(s) the shooter used in the killing spree from yesterday, but here’s my common sense gun control ideas.

Guns have a legitimate purpose for hunting and maybe animal control.
Handguns are out.  These are not for hunting.
Shotguns - limited to a single or double barrel with single or 2 shots.  No more pump action.
Rifles - Single shot rifles only.  No more clips. 

This will have the effect of limiting the amount of damage a shooter can do, while still preserving hunting in the country.

I am a firearms owner.  Pump action shotgun for ducks and bear defence, a .410 for birds, a Sako .223 for deer.
How about if hunters store their guns at armouries adjacent to hunting preserves? They check their guns out go hunting then return them to the armoury when they're finished?