Author Topic: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist  (Read 3959 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #225 on: March 14, 2017, 01:36:25 am »
Seriously? What life experience did he have? Breezing through prep school, limousine drives in Europe? A trust fund life where as soon as he graduated dad's friends found him a job?

Harper, meanwhile, was learning politics from the ground up, as an assistant to an MP, then an MP, then in various behind the scenes backroom positions before running for leader (without a name and pretty face), then dragging together two hostile parties and putting a lid on internal complaints and wingnuts. Harper was vastly experienced in politics before he headed his party into an election. The same cannot be said for Trudeau.
Harper was given his first job working in the mailroom im Calgary for his uncle at oil company. Plese try to keep up.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #226 on: March 17, 2017, 02:42:44 pm »
Harper was given his first job working in the mailroom im Calgary for his uncle at oil company. Plese try to keep up.

You realize how weak that was, right?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #227 on: March 17, 2017, 03:15:37 pm »
You realize how weak that was, right?
I realize how weak your assessment of JT's professional background is vis a vis your here Harper.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #228 on: March 20, 2017, 11:20:10 am »
I realize how weak your assessment of JT's professional background is vis a vis your here Harper.

Unlike yourself, I'm not a rigid ideological zealot. I've criticized Harper on many, many occasions.
But again, unlike yourself, I have the capability to judge things realistically.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline segnosaur

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #229 on: April 06, 2017, 06:46:08 pm »
The biggest racists and bigots in society today are groups like BLM.
Keep in mind that there are still issues with racism in society (e.g. stop and frisk laws, voter suppression laws in the U.S.), and that BLM does have value in bringing some of those issues to light.

Yes, I'm sure there are some extremists in the group, ones that fit the definition of "racist". There are probably extremists in every large political group. But I suspect many (probably most) members of BLM are simply people that see various ways that black people have been treated negatively and want it to stop. Judging an organization by the fringe elements isn't necessarily a fair way to judge the group as a whole.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #230 on: April 06, 2017, 07:16:59 pm »
Keep in mind that there are still issues with racism in society (e.g. stop and frisk laws, voter suppression laws in the U.S.), and that BLM does have value in bringing some of those issues to light.

Blacks are stopped and frisked more because Blacks commit more violent crime. It's not a racist thing, it's a racial thing. Voter suppression laws aren't because Republicans hate Black people, but because Republicans hate poor people - for not voting Republican. Again, not really a racist thing. If Republicans could figure a way to stop some percentage of white pensioners who always vote Democrat from voting they'd do that too. But white pensioners don't lend themselves to easy categorization in terms of who they're going to vote for.

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Yes, I'm sure there are some extremists in the group, ones that fit the definition of "racist".

Like their leaders, you mean? Certainly the Toronto one is a pretty clear and obvious racist.

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But I suspect many (probably most) members of BLM are simply people that see various ways that black people have been treated negatively and want it to stop.

They have not, in my opinion, made a case that the interaction between Blacks and police shows any particular unfair treatment in terms of racism. The only thing the protests against police have accomplished, as far as I can see, is to make Blacks feel even more resentment towards all police, even more like they are victims, and even less willing to cooperate with police - which means more likely to be shot by police.

BLM have strenuously protested every single case where a Black person was shot by police, even where the cop was Black, even where the shooting was clearly justified. It seems clear to me that their agenda is anti-police, anti-white, and should be ignored, not kowtowed to, as the gay pride organizers in Toronto did not that long ago.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #231 on: April 06, 2017, 08:27:31 pm »

They have not, in my opinion, made a case that the interaction between Blacks and police shows any particular unfair treatment in terms of racism. The only thing the protests against police have accomplished, as far as I can see, is to make Blacks feel even more resentment towards all police, even more like they are victims, and even less willing to cooperate with police - which means more likely to be shot by police.


Pretty obvious you have the cart before the horse there. Look at the stats of how blacks are treated compared to whites when the stop is for the simplest thing like a tail light.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #232 on: April 07, 2017, 07:50:38 am »
Blacks are stopped and frisked more because Blacks commit more violent crime.
There are way WAY more white people in prison for violent crimes in Canada than black people.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #233 on: April 07, 2017, 12:42:39 pm »
Blacks are stopped and frisked more because Blacks commit more violent crime. It's not a racist thing, it's a racial thing.
Yes, proportionally black people commit more violent crime. And proportionally white people commit more white collar crime; should we then allow police to arbitrarily investigate white people? And statistically more men are serial killers than women... should we allow the police to arbitrarily stop all men just on case one of them could be a serial killer?

Western society does have a tradition of presumed innocence. Yes, the theory may be "stop people likely to commit crime", but in practice it lead to harassment of the black population.
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Voter suppression laws aren't because Republicans hate Black people, but because Republicans hate poor people - for not voting Republican.
Actually, many districts in the U.S. have actually been gerrymandered along racial lines.

From: http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-texas-redistricting-20170311-story.html
Federal judges found more problems in Texas' voting rights laws, ruling that Republicans racially gerrymandered some congressional districts to weaken the growing electoral power of minorities

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If Republicans could figure a way to stop some percentage of white pensioners who always vote Democrat from voting they'd do that too.
I'm sure they would. But that doesn't mean they're gerrymandering along racial lines now or in the future, which disenfranchises the black vote. Now, if your argument is "The republicans just want to stay in power" fine, but the point is, black people are still being disenfranchised.

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Yes, I'm sure there are some extremists in the group, ones that fit the definition of "racist".
Like their leaders, you mean? Certainly the Toronto one is a pretty clear and obvious racist.
Yes, quite likely she is. 

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They have not, in my opinion, made a case that the interaction between Blacks and police shows any particular unfair treatment in terms of racism.
Well court cases say otherwise.

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BLM have strenuously protested every single case where a Black person was shot by police, even where the cop was Black, even where the shooting was clearly justified. It seems clear to me that their agenda is anti-police, anti-white, and should be ignored, not kowtowed to, as the gay pride organizers in Toronto did not that long ago.
Well that's the thing...

Yes, there will be some cases where minorities claim "police brutality" when there was none. There will also be cases when the police actually DO step over the line.  Neither situation is ideal, but given the history of racism in the U.S., it makes more sense to concentrate on problem 2 rather than problem 1, at least for the time being.

Now, things are a little different in Canada... we don't have exactly the same history of segregation that they do in the U.S., which does alter the way BLM should be viewed up here.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #234 on: April 07, 2017, 07:15:46 pm »
Pretty obvious you have the cart before the horse there. Look at the stats of how blacks are treated compared to whites when the stop is for the simplest thing like a tail light.

I don't deny that happens. Police are very wary around Black men in particular. But the cause isn't because they believe Blacks are racially inferior, but because statistically they KNOW that Blacks are much more likely to be violent and shoot them. Virtually every case which has made it to the networks about Black men being shot at or shot by police has originated in them physically resisting arrest in some way. And there are uncountable other times when Black men resist arrest, though they're not shot (and no, I'm not suggesting that each of these was justified because of that).

Sam Harris, who I've been looking at a lot lately, spent some time studying police. He said that what people have to bear in mind is the overwhelming nature of their being a gun present during physical altercations. That means that since cops can't read minds, every single physical confrontation is, from the cop's perspective, a fight for life or death. Because if he loses and is overpowered - and police are NOT very well trained in fighting - the assailant can grab their gun and shoot them. Which helps cause them to draw their guns much faster than they otherwise would.

Again, not denying that Blacks rouse cop suspicion more than whites, but it's due to experience and the reality of Black crime.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #235 on: April 07, 2017, 07:19:56 pm »
There are way WAY more white people in prison for violent crimes in Canada than black people.

There are WAY more white people in Canada than Black people, so there damned well SHOULD be way more in prison. But the numbers are not proportional to the numbers of Whites and Blacks (or natives) in the population. In terms of street crime, shootings, stabbings, drug dealing, that seems to be way more of an ethnic thing. Not that there aren't whites involved, but the great majority of those involved appear not to be White. I think I've pissed off some people in the last year by noting and pointing out just how many killings in Ottawa have involved Muslims (mostly Somalians and Lebanese). In Toronto, my understanding is most of the shootings are coming from the Jamaican community. There aren't as many Blacks out west, but I have noted through media reports, the number of Somalians who seem to be getting involved in drug crime in Alberta.

In the US, of course, where BLM started, the statistics are taken and published and fairly obvious. Black's are vastly more disproportionately involved in violent crime than Whites. I think I published statistics from the NYPD recently which showed over 90% of shootings had a Black suspect, for example.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #236 on: April 07, 2017, 07:33:48 pm »
Yes, proportionally black people commit more violent crime. And proportionally white people commit more white collar crime; should we then allow police to arbitrarily investigate white people? And statistically more men are serial killers than women... should we allow the police to arbitrarily stop all men just on case one of them could be a serial killer?

You can't equate these different types of crime. Nobody is afraid of white collar criminals. The cops aren't going to be wary about stopping a white guy because he might actually be a fraudulent telemarketer or an embezzler. And serial killing is too rare to be meaningful as a threat. What you have to take into account is that in high crime areas (which are mostly Black) there are going to be more police posted. They are going to be getting more 911 calls, mostly from Black residents, reporting more crimes, which means they are going to be looking for violent or criminal suspects who are invariably described as Black men, going to be looking out for violent Black street gangs and their members, as well as Black drug dealers, and that there will be a strong possibility all these people will be armed.

All of that is going to permeate policing in a given city. Even those cops who don't work in those areas probably DID at one point, and they are going to be a lot more suspicious and wary of young black men than young white men. And that's not because they hate Black people. Black cops and Hispanic cops and Asian cops are going to be just as wary. Remember how some years ago Jessie Jackson said that when he hears a group of young men coming up the sidewalk behind him he feels relief when they're white? He's just going with the statistics and his experience like the cops do.

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Western society does have a tradition of presumed innocence. Yes, the theory may be "stop people likely to commit crime", but in practice it lead to harassment of the black population.

I'm not saying it's not a problem and I'm not saying I don't understand the frustration of young black men who are repeatedly stopped when they've done nothing wrong. But the BLM movement is, at its base, talking about Blacks being KILLED by police. And police don't generally do that without some kind of physical aggression on the part of the suspect. And it seems to me that what all this is doing is making young Black men in particular, but also, I've seen, women, much more likely to be resistant and aggressive with police. So in actuality BLM is causing more violence against Blacks.

Then too you have the problem of Chicago. What happens when the police feel that they're damned if they do and damned if they don't? If they just lay back and refuse to put pressure on the streets and the violent crime rate and killings skyrocket, then what?

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Now, if your argument is "The republicans just want to stay in power" fine, but the point is, black people are still being disenfranchised.

That IS my point, in fact. If Blacks all voted Republican, there would be no more attempts at disenfranchising them on the part of the Republicans.

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Yes, there will be some cases where minorities claim "police brutality" when there was none. There will also be cases when the police actually DO step over the line.  Neither situation is ideal, but given the history of racism in the U.S., it makes more sense to concentrate on problem 2 rather than problem 1, at least for the time being.

I disagree. Because police 'stepping over the line' is not confined to minority groups. Police stepping over the line is a universal problem. Blacks might notice it more often simply because they have more interaction with police due to the Black crime rate. But police need to be reigned in and better trained in defusing situations, and in hand to hand combat, so they don't feel they have to resort to firearms as often. And we need to get every cop equipped with a camera.


Now, things are a little different in Canada... we don't have exactly the same history of segregation that they do in the U.S., which does alter the way BLM should be viewed up here.
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #237 on: April 07, 2017, 09:04:50 pm »
Cops, especially in the US, should be given better training on deescalating situations rather than what has been shown to be sorely lacking. Matter of fact in many cases, especially when Blacks are involved they do the opposite. And they should wear body cams. They're relatively cheap and keep everybody honest.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #238 on: April 08, 2017, 02:19:56 pm »
There are WAY more white people in Canada than Black people, so there damned well SHOULD be way more in prison.
Yet you support stop and frisk for black people only.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #239 on: April 08, 2017, 04:19:30 pm »
Yet you support stop and frisk for black people only.

Stop and frisk is something normally only done in high crime areas. I'm not aware we even do it in Canada, though stop and ... question' might be a better description here. That too is mostly in higher crime neighborhoods, and it targets those the police feel 'resemble' those who give them the most trouble. Yes, that means young Black men now, but not it's once again and cause/effect thing. It's not because police hate black skin. It's also a bit of a lazy way of meeting the people in your district/precinct/division who are most likely to be causing trouble (ie, young men), and recording where and when you met them so that if a crime happens nearby at that time detectives can look those people up and question them more thoroughly. The Son of Sam was caught largely because he had a parking ticket near one of his crimes.

Incidentally, Arabs are complaining here about being pulled over and stopped more often. Why? Because police hate Arabs? Nope. Because Arabs are involved in a lot of violent crime here. If we had a nasty white street gang in some neighborhood the police would be stopping and questioning young white men they found nearby. That's just what they do.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum