Canadian Politics Today

It's like saying, "and then Lincoln freed the slaves and everyone was free."

It means having less opportunities because of the colour of your skin or the origins of your family name. Something a great many people never even have to dream of experiencing. It also means getting treated more harshly for the same crimes, being more likely to be stopped by the police for the same activities, being more likely to be assaulted and manhandled by the cops for doing the same things, all because of the colour of your skin or the tone of your accent. In the not so distant past and it still happens today, it means being denied an apartment or a loan because of your skin colour or family name. These are things that white people, particularly with anglo names, have the great privilege of not experiencing.

You love to mix the completely BS in with the reasonable statement in the hope that the crap you make up will be taken more seriously. From what I have read there is an issue with black crime and innocent blacks find themselves subject to harsher police tactics. This is an issue that needs addressing but it has nothing to do with opportunities.

The anglo name stuff is based on a study with resumes which had nothing to do with skin colour and everything  to do with perceived English speaking ability. And whether you like or not people with better English skills have an advantage in a society where English is the primary language. It is unreasonable to expect otherwise. More importantly, the "privilege" myth that you keep harping on is not about English ability but melanin count so language related discrimination is immaterial.

Lastly, opportunities are primarily a function of family wealth. Poor white folks have as much trouble as poor non-white folks. Rich immigrants do much better - especially if they are English speaking. Any correlation with melanin count and opportunities is a reflection of the different economic status of immigrants  from different parts of the world.

 

It's called privilege of good decisions.  I would bet that if you are a white guy dressed like a biker or rolling around in a white muscle shirt looking like trash the cops aren't going to be taking you to seriously.  Likewise a person of colour who is well dressed, calm, and polite will be taken more seriously, that's just life and it applies to more than just dealings with the police, such as job interviews.

If people make good decisions they get rewarded, if their parents make good decisions and their kids make good decisions, then the kid has an advantage.  It's as simple as that.

So in that respect my opportunities were much lower than a lot of other people. I don't think that made me oppressed though. I don't think that word really has any meaning in Canada compared to the reality of the world.

I am somewhat in the same situation. I think I have done reasonably well for myself. I don't have a college degree, and I haven't benefited from family connections, but I have managed to obtain full time work, a home, a car, and relatively stable finances.  I still don't know whether it's a result of privilege, or dumb luck, or hard work, or (most likely) a combination of all of the above.

Under the "privilege" heading:

 -I have benefited from competent parenting.  Mom is an abusive alcoholic, but dad is a level-headed person who taught me innumerable, immeasurably important things about how good people conduct themselves.   I have no idea where I would have ended up if I didn't have someone like him to teach me.

 -I am moderately good-looking, and can wear a tank-top and tight pants or short skirt, or a Little Black Dress.  At this point in my life, that's not super-important, but when I was younger it meant a lot.  When I first arrived in Kim City, it took me about 2 hours to find work.  When I was younger, I was able to graduate from the crappy, low-paying work of fast-food, retail, and family restaurants, to working in bars and making a lot more money, while my friends were still in crappy low-paying jobs.

In high school I used to take the same bus home as a couple of girls from a nearby college. They were both very attractive, one was white, the other black, and they seemed to be inseparable besties, and I sometimes listened in on their conversations. One day White Girl was bemoaning her failure to land a summer job... Black Girl laughed and said "You're white. Go work at Earl's." They both laughed, but I knew there was an element of truth to what she said, and I put it into action later when I was old enough.

Meanwhile, under the "hard work" heading:

 -I think I got ahead at least partly through aptitude and hard work. I started with my employer as a casual laborer, and advanced mostly just by being more reliable and more productive than the other casuals, and the owner took notice.  But the thing that always gets me is... would the owner have taken the same notice if I was male? ...aboriginal?  I'm not the only hard-working casual who ever worked for them... but the others didn't come in such an adorable package.  I have a hunch that if I was male or unattractive, the owner might not have taken the same interest in my abilities.

The one time I was stopped as a young man by police wanting to know what I was doing in that alley I'd come out of at 2AM I stopped, answered his questions politely, and he moved on. I would suggest if I instead responded by telling him to go and F*ck himself, and it was none of his damn business and turned to walk away, I would have found myself arrested, regardless of my ivory skin.

I have said this a number of times before in previous discussions, but I think the race aspect of police misconduct is overblown... the real issue is, I think, class.  I mean, obviously race is significantly intertwined with that as well, as poor-people are disproportionately non-white, and there's a tendency to suspect that if a black person has the trappings of success it was paid for by crime. Black guy driving a BMW... probably a drug-dealer, right?

But I live in one of the whitest communities in Canada... and the police treat people like crap here too. They don't treat me like crap, because I look like a completely non-threatening, upstanding citizen. But the streets are full of homeless people and hobos and panhandlers, and most of them are white or aboriginal, and the RCMP make sure to harass and intimidate and bully them as much as legally possible, white or not.  If you look like you might be a drug-user or a criminal, the police are going to get up in your business. In some places, being black might be all it takes for the police to decide you look like a drug-user or a criminal. But here, most of the people who "fit the profile" are actually white, and the police don't give them a pass because of their skin color.

 -k

You guys misunderstand privilege. The fact that you don't have to worry about your name or skin colour holding you back from getting a job, loan, or place to live is a privilege that many don't have. Worse still it's a privilege not to be profiled and harassed by the police every time you step into public. Those are the privileges we're talking about when we say "privilege." Connections and other kinds of capital like that are also privileges, but well beyond everything else and completely unreachable for people who are born into families where their parents were completely held back and couldn't build social, cultural, or material capital to pass on to their kids.

Do they actually get held back?  It's almost impossible to quantify that.  On top of it the government has affirmative action programs in place extending a privelege in itself.  It's privelege of making good decisions and from what I've seen people who dress well, act respectful, and have their ducks in a row generally do well and or improve their lot in life.  You can't jump to conclusions and toss around privelege as an explanation without seeing the totality of the circumstances.  Bad decisions also lead to an eventual loss of good decision priveleges.  A white person who decides to go on the prescription drug rabbit hole is going to end up having less priveleges than a non white person who makes good decisions.

Almost every person white or non-white over time came to Canada with very little if anything and its up to them to make good decisions to gain themselves priveleges and to pass those on to their children.

Racism and prejudice are wrong, however throwing those themes out there based on an unnamed boogeyman is a cop-out and holds people back by giving a nameless figure to blame their problems on instead of taking responsibility for their actions.  Improving ones lot in life is a lot harder than maintaining it.

You guys misunderstand privilege. The fact that you don't have to worry about your name or skin colour holding you back from getting a job, loan, or place to live is a privilege that many don't have.

There are all kinds of things which give you privilege, though. Being middle class or upper class with family connections is huge, being attractive is huge. Who has a harder time finding work, an attractive Black woman or a short fat, ugly white man?

Here's a test. Send a Black man with a heavy accent to try to rent apartments then sent an attractive black woman with no accent, or a black man with no accent, to compete. Guess which will win the competition. It's rarely just about skin colour.

When I was working in administration for CRA competition to get in was fierce, and the laws to ensure fair hiring were tightly policed. During some 8 years there I only ever saw them violated three times - by directors wanting to hire a specific person. It probably won't surprise you all three people hired without competition were white. It will probably not surprise anyone all three were young, blonde, female and very attractive.  No, I don't mean they were sleeping with directors. I knew them all very well. But the directors liked having them as their admin assistants, and I don't think them being cute was a coincidence. Hell, after I hired one (as a temp) one of the security guards in the lobby stopped me to thank me, just because he was so delighted she was walking back and forth in front of him every day.

Worse still it's a privilege not to be profiled and harassed by the police every time you step into public.

The police profile EVERYONE they see. Most people do in some way shape or form. It's human nature. And in any event, police profiling isn't a result of their own inherent racism but their response to criminal trends. I've often seen where Blacks get stopped more often than Whites. Last month for the first time, I saw a study which showed that Arabs AND Blacks get stopped more often than Whites in Ottawa. You know why that is? Because most of the violent street crime in this city is coming from its middle eastern immigrant community.

Connections and other kinds of capital like that are also privileges, but well beyond everything else and completely unreachable for people who are born into families where their parents were completely held back and couldn't build social, cultural, or material capital to pass on to their kids.

Yeah, but that's social/economic not racist.

Yes they do and no it isn't.

Then quantify it. 

http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/8658076

Some examples of non-white people making good decisions and benefiting from it.  The Vietnamese boat people have significantly less unemployment on average and 1 in 5 own a business.

Or there is Toronto one of the most diverse cities in the world and a diversity of income amongst its citizens there.  Playing the race card without proof for bad choices some people make only hurts and divides society.