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Author Topic: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist  (Read 4046 times)

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Offline Blueblood

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2017, 12:33:47 pm »
Quote from: cybercoma on February 19, 2017, 12:17:02 pm
Social and economic barriers as the result of generations of systemic racism.

You can't say systemic racism without quoting a law where there is proof it exists.  The law I can think of is the Indian act and the government actually doing racist things to native people from confederation to the 1990s in regards to said act. You can't fight phantoms as it divides the country.  For example the residential school issue is a quantifiable issue of racism as kids were forced from home to go to these schools and many suffered abuse which was government mandated. 

You can't make much of a case now as laws and written policies change and the best people have is "white privelege". I'm pretty sure the people living in Atlantic Canada aren't as priveleges as those living in Alberta or bc.  Those barriers have been lifted which is why many leftists are left with implying things happen when they don't.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2017, 05:12:42 pm »
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You can't say systemic racism without quoting a law...

That's nonsense.  You can have systemic racism without laws.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2017, 06:56:09 pm »
Quote from: the_squid on February 19, 2017, 05:12:42 pm
That's nonsense.  You can have systemic racism without laws.
Maybe that's the problem. A whole bunch of people don't know what systemic racism is.
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Offline Blueblood

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2017, 06:57:29 pm »
Quote from: cybercoma on February 19, 2017, 06:56:09 pm
Maybe that's the problem. A whole bunch of people don't know what systemic racism is.

The idea of systemic racism is that there are laws passed that disadvantage a race for the sake of their race.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2017, 07:03:39 pm »
Quote from: Blueblood on February 19, 2017, 06:57:29 pm
The idea of systemic racism is that there are laws passed that disadvantage a race for the sake of their race.
That's not what systemic racism is.

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"When white terrorists bomb a black church and kill five black children, that is an act of individual racism, widely deplored by most segments of the society. But when in that same city--Birmingham, Alabama--five hundred black babies die each year because of the lack of power, food, shelter and medical facilities, and thousands more are destroyed and maimed physically, emotionally and intellectually because of conditions of poverty and discrimination in the black community, that is a function of institutional racism. When a black family moves into a home in a white neighborhood and is stoned, burned or routed out, they are victims of an overt act of individual racism which most people will condemn. But it is institutional racism that keeps black people locked in dilapidated slum tenements, subject to the daily prey of exploitative slumlords, merchants, loan sharks and discriminatory real estate agents. The society either pretends it does not know of this latter situation, or is in fact incapable of doing anything meaningful about it."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism

There's a very big difference between "individual acts of racism" and systemic or institutionalized racism. You're talking about explicit racism. Institutional racism is not necessarily explicit and it's not about individual acts of racism.
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Offline Blueblood

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #65 on: February 19, 2017, 07:34:00 pm »
Quote from: cybercoma on February 19, 2017, 07:03:39 pm
That's not what systemic racism is.

There's a very big difference between "individual acts of racism" and systemic or institutionalized racism. You're talking about explicit racism. Institutional racism is not necessarily explicit and it's not about individual acts of racism.

My issue simply is this:  with people saying it's systemic racism and that "it's the man's fault" for whatever problems a person has - it doesn't solve anything, it erodes confidence, and encourages dependency. 

It's far easier to combat racial issues when there are clear cut examples such as laws being passed which disenfranchise people.  The laws can be repealed.  Another example would be a business denying service to someone because of their race and a tape of the encounter went viral. 

 Nobody left or right approves of racism because it simply causes problems in the long term for everyone.  However some people over use the word racism to shut down debate about solutions to problems and that's bad in and of itself.  I think a big reason the civil rights movement of the 60s was so successful because they were able to show all kinds of concrete examples of racism, show why it's bad and as a result action was taken on it.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2017, 09:44:03 am »
Quote from: cybercoma on February 19, 2017, 07:03:39 pm
That's not what systemic racism is.

There's a very big difference between "individual acts of racism" and systemic or institutionalized racism. You're talking about explicit racism. Institutional racism is not necessarily explicit and it's not about individual acts of racism.

You can't ascribe the social conditions many Blacks live under to simple racism. There are a myriad reasons and yes, some are historically due to racism and slavery, but how many decades must pass before we start to suggest that maybe, maybe if you grew up in a slum and you're still in a slum, a lot of that is on you? The Black community in the U.S. has a value problem. Single parent families and child abandonment by men is endemic. Crime, black on black, is endemic. Drugs are everywhere. Very little value is placed on education. Immigrants come to the US with nothing and within a generation are doing very well yet successive generations of Black families live on welfare. This despite decades of aggressive affirmative action campaigns and laws to encourage the hiring, promotion, and higher education of Blacks.

I think in this case your 'systemic racism' is simply society shrugging and saying 'i don't know what to do'.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2017, 12:02:29 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on February 20, 2017, 09:44:03 am
You can't ascribe the social conditions many Blacks live under to simple racism. There are a myriad reasons and yes, some are historically due to racism and slavery, but how many decades must pass before we start to suggest that maybe, maybe if you grew up in a slum and you're still in a slum, a lot of that is on you?
Well, since social mobility isn't all that great, even for white people, you tell me.
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Offline Blueblood

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2017, 12:24:16 pm »
Quote from: cybercoma on February 20, 2017, 12:02:29 pm
Well, since social mobility isn't all that great, even for white people, you tell me.

Social mobility is far better than in other parts of the world.  Free to succeed and free to fail, it's a 2 way street.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #69 on: February 20, 2017, 02:45:57 pm »
Quote from: Blueblood on February 20, 2017, 12:24:16 pm
Social mobility is far better than in other parts of the world.  Free to succeed and free to fail, it's a 2 way street.

Well, statistically, social mobility has been declining in the U.S. I know this goes against the grain of Americans, who like to think their country is the ultimate, as far as social mobility goes, but they're now pretty far down the list.

The fact remains if you put in the effort, you can get ahead. You need to actually attend school and finish with reasonable (not excellent) marks. You'll be guaranteed student loans and grants and placement at a university if you do this and then you're on your way. Learn to dress and talk like the mainstream, and people will treat you like a part of the mainstream. Talk and dress ghetto and nobody from the mainstream wants you near them.

The problem is not that you can't do it. The problem is the temptations put in your path to not do it. Unprotected sex, drugs, gangs, easy money, and a host of others, including the sense of inevitability so many young people in those circumstances feel, that there's no point in trying because it's hopeless. That's the big killer. School ain't cool. Cool is a shiny hand gun and big muscles and a reputation that nobody better diss you.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 02:50:16 pm by SirJohn »
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #70 on: February 20, 2017, 03:09:25 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on February 20, 2017, 02:45:57 pm
Learn to dress and talk like the mainstream, and people will treat you like a part of the mainstream.

Did you notice that several of the most upwardly mobile people seem to go against that, in fact they are leading the change in the mainstream.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #71 on: February 20, 2017, 09:21:55 pm »
Quote from: Blueblood on February 19, 2017, 12:33:47 pm
You can't say systemic racism without quoting a law where there is proof it exists.

Kind of like how "Code Red" doesn't exist if it's not written down in the Marine Corps training manual?

 -k
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2017, 07:27:40 am »
Quote from: SirJohn on February 20, 2017, 02:45:57 pm
Well, statistically, social mobility has been declining in the U.S. . . . The fact remains if you put in the effort, you can get ahead.
So social mobility has been declining because people are lazy. I don't think so.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2017, 09:25:00 am »
Quote from: cybercoma on February 21, 2017, 07:27:40 am
So social mobility has been declining because people are lazy. I don't think so.
http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/01/us-has-social-mobility-problem-not-one-you-think/8188/

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A groundbreaking study making waves today argues that this isn't true. A child born in the bottom fifth of the income distribution appears to have just as much chance reaching the top fifth in adulthood today as a child born a generation earlier. Combining these results with earlier research, it appears as if prospects for social mobility in America have remained relatively unchanged for half a century.
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"The key issue in our view," Chetty and colleagues write, "is not that prospects for upward mobility are declining in the U.S. as a whole but rather that some regions of the U.S. persistently offer less mobility than most other developed countries.
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"The U.S. is better described as a collection of societies," the researchers write, "some of which are 'lands of opportunity' with high rates of mobility across generations, and others in which few children escape poverty."
I think this view makes much more sense. Trying to make generalized claims about the US as a whole is not productive.

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Justin Trudeau: the White Supremacist
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2017, 11:41:04 am »
Quote from: ?Impact on February 20, 2017, 03:09:25 pm
Did you notice that several of the most upwardly mobile people seem to go against that, in fact they are leading the change in the mainstream.

Examples? If you're talking about entertainment people, well... It might be considered very cool to dress like some of the hip hop artists, but you're going to face problems getting a job if you show up for an interview like that in most places.
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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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