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Author Topic: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?  (Read 27095 times)

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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #840 on: August 29, 2019, 12:34:50 pm »
Quote from: MH on August 29, 2019, 12:30:39 pm
Doesn't that restrict choice though ?

Yes.   But for good reason.  Gender selective abortion is a practice in some cultures (Indian and Chinese mostly) that we don’t want in Canada.   

Unfortunately, there are private ultrasound clinics one can go to.
https://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/gender-selection/
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Online wilber

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #841 on: August 29, 2019, 01:02:02 pm »
Quote from: cybercoma on August 29, 2019, 07:42:48 am
Practically speaking how do you go about it? You think people walk into a clinic and go "Oh, I'm having a girl...please abort."

The Torys were criticized for not supporting a motion in Parliament that proposed exactly that.
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“that the House of Commons reiterate that a woman’s body belongs to her and her alone, and recognize her right to choose an abortion regardless of the reason.”
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Online wilber

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #842 on: August 29, 2019, 01:03:22 pm »
Quote from: cybercoma on August 29, 2019, 07:43:50 am
You're being stupid with this comment. I gave a solution to gender selection. Just because you either don't like it or don't understand it doesn't mean I support it. FOH

Simple questions you still refuse to address.
What solution?
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Offline Boges

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #843 on: August 29, 2019, 03:20:39 pm »
I'd argue this is extraordinary thread drift. If JT uses fear of Abortion laws in his campaigning it will mean he's hilariously desperate.

That being said, I do find it interesting that this is the one issue where lawmakers can't actually make any "laws" regulating abortions.

If we agree that you should have to have a very good reason to abort a fetus into the third trimester, why is it such an attack on women to have that written into law?

It seems like the same sort of slippery slope argument gun ownership advocates use in the US?
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Offline Omni

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #844 on: August 29, 2019, 03:31:19 pm »
Quote from: Boges on August 29, 2019, 03:20:39 pm
I'd argue this is extraordinary thread drift. If JT uses fear of Abortion laws in his campaigning it will mean he's hilariously desperate.

That being said, I do find it interesting that this is the one issue where lawmakers can't actually make any "laws" regulating abortions.

If we agree that you should have to have a very good reason to abort a fetus into the third trimester, why is it such an attack on women to have that written into law?

It seems like the same sort of slippery slope argument gun ownership advocates use in the US?

I doubt like hell JT will use fear of abortion laws in his campaign, but if he felt he needed to the first thing he could do would be to simply quote from Scheer's campaign speech when he was running for CPC leadership. Statistics show doctors perform very few abortions after 24 weeks unless there is a good reason. I think most Canadians are happy with the "woman and her doctor" making the decisions on the issue.
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Offline Boges

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #845 on: August 29, 2019, 03:39:14 pm »
Quote from: Omni on August 29, 2019, 03:31:19 pm
Statistics show doctors perform very few abortions after 24 weeks unless there is a good reason. I think most Canadians are happy with the "woman and her doctor" making the decisions on the issue.

I repeat, the only issues where regulation is frowned upon. I'm not bothered by the status quo.

But I disagree that protecting an otherwise full formed fetus from death for anything other than a REALLY GOOD REASON is some sort of extreme woman hating position.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #846 on: August 29, 2019, 04:05:52 pm »
Quote from: Boges on August 29, 2019, 03:39:14 pm
I repeat, the only issues where regulation is frowned upon. I'm not bothered by the status quo.

But I disagree that protecting an otherwise full formed fetus from death for anything other than a REALLY GOOD REASON is some sort of extreme woman hating position.

Stats. show the birth rate in Canada is 105 boys for every 100 girls. Consistent with the global average. Evidence we don't need to open the issue other than to appease the Right, and the religious.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #847 on: August 29, 2019, 05:25:28 pm »
Quote from: MH on August 29, 2019, 12:30:39 pm
Doesn't that restrict choice though ?

What does?
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #848 on: August 29, 2019, 05:31:36 pm »
Quote from: Omni on August 29, 2019, 04:05:52 pm
Stats. show the birth rate in Canada is 105 boys for every 100 girls. Consistent with the global average. Evidence we don't need to open the issue other than to appease the Right, and the religious.

The global average isn't relevant if gender-selected abortion is happening in other countries too.  What we need to know is what is the expected average if there's zero gender abortions.  Is it 100 boys for every 100 girls?  If so then we still have a problem.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #849 on: August 29, 2019, 05:36:06 pm »
Quote from: Poonlight Graham on August 29, 2019, 05:31:36 pm
The global average isn't relevant if gender-selected abortion is happening in other countries too.  What we need to know is what is the expected average if there's zero gender abortions.  Is it 100 boys for every 100 girls?  If so then we still have a problem.

Boys are born slightly more often than girls globally.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #850 on: August 29, 2019, 06:34:19 pm »
Quote from: Boges on August 29, 2019, 03:39:14 pm
I repeat, the only issues where regulation is frowned upon. I'm not bothered by the status quo.

Do you think legislation is necessary?


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But I disagree that protecting an otherwise full formed fetus from death for anything other than a REALLY GOOD REASON is some sort of extreme woman hating position.

Not sure anyone has argued that.  I haven’t seen any legislation put forward, or talked about.   Then we can judge if it’s woman-hating.   I do agree in principle that the mere suggestion of legislation isn’t “woman-hating”. 
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #851 on: August 29, 2019, 06:52:19 pm »
Quote from: Poonlight Graham on August 29, 2019, 05:31:36 pm
What we need to know is what is the expected average if there's zero gender abortions.  Is it 100 boys for every 100 girls?

There are many factors that influence whether a sperm containing a Y sex chromosome or one containing an X chromosome will be first to fertilize an egg. These include the age of the parents, their environmental exposure, stress, the stage in the mother's ovulation cycle and even whether she has had children previously. The natural ratio* appears to be about 1.05:1 (male:female). In recent years the global average has been up to 1.07:1, which is assumed to be a result of sex selective abortions in countries like China and India. The population total of male to female is much closer to 1.01:1, generally due to shorter average life spans of males and many of them dying young (we are the fragile gender).

*Natural ratio - This is the current human natural ratio which has resulted in the gender balance of population. The evolutionary biologist, Sir Ronald Fisher, proposed that a natural reproductive advantage goes to members of the minority gender that brings back a balance.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #852 on: August 29, 2019, 07:20:37 pm »
Quote from: the_squid on August 29, 2019, 12:34:50 pm
Yes.   But for good reason.  Gender selective abortion is a practice in some cultures (Indian and Chinese mostly) that we don’t want in Canada.   

Unfortunately, there are private ultrasound clinics one can go to.
https://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/gender-selection/

So if somebody says they want an abortion "just because" then that's a good reason?  But not "I want a girl" ?
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #853 on: August 29, 2019, 07:21:04 pm »
Quote from: Poonlight Graham on August 29, 2019, 05:25:28 pm
What does?

Saying you can't have an abortion if you know the gender.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #854 on: August 29, 2019, 08:00:04 pm »
Quote from: MH on August 29, 2019, 07:20:37 pm
So if somebody says they want an abortion "just because" then that's a good reason?  But not "I want a girl" ?

I don’t know....   I haven’t really given it that much thought and I have flip-flopped a bit on the issue even in this thread. 

Personally, it’s extremely distasteful to me....    but I’m not sure if it is immoral enough (in general, not just to me) to bother making laws about it.   Bodily autonomy for the woman might be more important to protect.  The medical community sees it as a big enough issue that they won’t release the sex of the baby to the parents prior to 24 weeks in BC, according to Wilber.  He hasn’t given a cite for that though.

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