Author Topic: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?  (Read 26766 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #780 on: August 25, 2019, 06:39:47 pm »
We appear to be talking on two different paths here.  I am pro choice, and do not believe one can be pro choice if one wants to vet the choice.  It's like freedom of speech.  If one is for it, then one doesn't get to decide which speech one is for.

There are all sorts of limitations on free speech, such as libel and slander, harassment, 3rd party political campaigning etc., lobbying etc.

There should also be limitations on abortions, and thankfully medical boards have some of these in place.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 06:41:31 pm by Poonlight Graham »
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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #781 on: August 25, 2019, 06:52:47 pm »
We already vet the choice, abortions are not performed beyond 24 months, are you in favour of allowing them at any time?

I'm surprised so called feminists would support abortions solely on the basis of the foetus being female.

Ask yourself why we allow abortions at all.  I suggest it is so that a women cannot be forced to undergo a pregnancy, and all the related medical procedures, and then have to go through labour, and end up with a child she does not want.

What pro life people say is that this should not be allowed, as the foetus is a sacred life and should be brought to term in every case.  I disagree with that but respect the right to the view.

What you are saying is that we should allow a women to choose to have an abortion for the reasons I stated above, which means we put the rights of the woman above those of the foetus, but then, at some point, we say "Hang on a minute!  Why do do you want an abortion?", and based on the answer, decide to completely reverse our position.  Put the rights of the foetus above those of the woman, and force her to undergo a pregnancy, endure all the related medical procedures, go through labour, and end up with a child she does not want.  Just because you don't like the choice.  You don't.  That is not pro choice.

As to your question, I see 24 weeks as arbitrary, (24 months seems a little barbaric) but as you have stated, at some point the medical professionals required might not want to perform an abortion due to the viability of the foetus.  I would not advocate sanctions for any that did. 

guest7

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #782 on: August 25, 2019, 06:54:14 pm »
There are all sorts of limitations on free speech, such as libel and slander, harassment, 3rd party political campaigning etc., lobbying etc.

There should also be limitations on abortions, and thankfully medical boards have some of these in place.

I think wilber's 24 month limit is one I can support.

Unless it's a real brat.

Online wilber

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #783 on: August 25, 2019, 07:42:04 pm »
I think wilber's 24 month limit is one I can support.

Unless it's a real brat.

Changed it but my point still stands, we do vet abortions already.
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Online wilber

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #784 on: August 25, 2019, 07:44:44 pm »
Ask yourself why we allow abortions at all.  I suggest it is so that a women cannot be forced to undergo a pregnancy, and all the related medical procedures, and then have to go through labour, and end up with a child she does not want.



Well she did want it until she found out it was a girl. Even if you support abortions for such reasons, there is absolutely no reason for society to pay for them.
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guest7

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #785 on: August 25, 2019, 07:53:45 pm »
Well she did want it until she found out it was a girl. Even if you support abortions for such reasons, there is absolutely no reason for society to pay for them.

We're getting to the panto stage now.  I'll say one thing more then give you the last word on this particular argument.

It's irrelevant to me why she wants one, and it's irrelevant when she decides she wants one. 

As I said earlier, she can have one if she decides after catching the father in bed with her sister.  Or if she find the foetus has Down's Syndrome. Or one leg longer than the other.  Or the gene for Cystic Fybrosis.  Any reason.  She doesn't have to check with me.

Society should not have the right to ask for reasons.  They can pay or not pay, but not based on reasons.  As far as I am concerned.

Offline waldo

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #786 on: August 26, 2019, 07:18:31 am »
c'mon member wilber... member PG - one would think you'd preface your positions with actual facts/data, starting with the prevalence of so-called, 'gender-selection abortion'. What are the numbers/estimates? Surely this isn't just {yet} another Scheer/CPC reach-around anti-abortion ploy - surely!

speaking of some of this distraction from Scheer:

Quote from: Maryam Monsef - Minister for Women and Gender Equality
Canadian women and allies are afraid and deserve to know Scheer and Conservative Party of Canada will see women’s rights as human rights and not reopen debate or {attempt to} find a back door. Canadians — and Canadian women in particular — deserve to know whether or not the Conservative Party of Canada would take us backwards by restricting or undermining a woman’s right to choose

during 2017's CPC leadership campaign, weak Andy stated:
Quote
he would like to see MPs once again consider a 2016 bill that would have made it an offence to kill or injure a fetus when committing an offence against the mother
... most clearly {yet} another CPC ploy to attempt to extend legal status to a fetus.

as a precursor to his current CPC leader position advocating for backbencher's to bring forward, "initiatives of their conscience":
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As Speaker of the House Andrew Scheer ruled in favour of Mark Warawa’s right to bring up statements on his failed motion, M-408 (asking the government to condemn sex-selective abortion) overruling the party whip, Gordon O’Connor. At the time, O’Connor had warned Warawa not to bring this issue up any longer since the House Procedure and Affairs Committee ruled that his motion could not come to the House, but Scheer overruled him saying it was his right to speak on whatever issue he wished

Quote from: during 2017 CPC leadership campaign - Andrew Scheer
We don't tell anyone that they have to park their conscience or their faith at the door. It's important that the next leader of our party not only allows that, but celebrates that tradition of having free votes on matters of conscience

that's the Scheer/CPC weasel-wording, that's the end-around, reach-around, backdoor strategy that allows Scheer to posture that a Scheer/CPC cabinet wouldn't initiate... cause they'll just rely on backbenchers to bring those anti-abortion postions/bills forward

Offline waldo

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #787 on: August 26, 2019, 07:38:18 am »
The Green Party has in their official federal platform that they would bring in free universal pharmacare, dental care, and free post-secondary education for all.  May thinks she's Bernie Sanders, yet doesn't seem to understand that education and healthcare is provincial jurisdiction.

why would weak Andy/CPC be against National Pharmacare? Canada is the only country in the world with universal healthcare... that doesn't include a pharmacare component... in 2018, Canadians spent $38 billion on prescription medicines... Canada ranks 3rd in the world in per-capita spending on medicines. As a CPC alternative to National Pharmacare, Scheer stated:
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A Conservative government would take steps to lower drug prices and improve access for those who can't afford it, addressing "gaps" in the system

contrast that Scheer/CPC nothingness to the: Statement from the Government of Canada on the Final Report  from the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare
Quote
June 12, 2019 - Ottawa, ON - Government of Canada

Today, the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Minister of Health, will table in Parliament the final report from the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare. She released the following statement:

“Our Government is pleased to receive the final report from the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare. We would like to thank Dr. Eric Hoskins and each of the Council members for their dedication, enthusiasm, and leadership on this complex issue. We would also like to recognize the important contributions from all Canadians who took the time to provide input to and to participate in discussions with the Council over the past year—patients, provincial and territorial governments, Indigenous leaders and peoples, health care providers, stakeholder organizations, and academics.

Canadians face some of the highest prescription drug prices in the world. This influences Canadians’ access to important medications and the sustainability of Canada’s health care system. That is why, in Budget 2018, we announced the creation of the Council to make recommendations on how to best move forward on implementing a national pharmacare program.

Over the coming months, we will carefully review the Council’s final report and its recommendations. We look forward to continuing to work closely and collaboratively with the provinces and territories and with our partners and stakeholders as we consider next steps. We will also continue moving forward with other important initiatives, including those announced in Budget 2019, to improve access to prescription drugs and to make medications more affordable for all Canadians.

Our Government remains committed to implementing national pharmacare in a manner that is affordable for Canadians and their families, employers, and governments. We know that our existing patchwork of drug coverage is not working well, leading to poorer health for some and higher costs for us all. We have to do better. Canadians should never have to choose between paying for prescription drugs and putting food on the table.”

A PRESCRIPTION FOR CANADA: ACHIEVING PHARMACARE FOR ALL - Final Report of the Advisory Council on the Implementation of National Pharmacare - June 2019

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #788 on: August 26, 2019, 09:45:12 am »
Sure, but why should someone else pay for it?
What do you think happens when people can't get an abortion because they can't afford it? Do you think they just go, "I guess I'll just have a baby instead?"

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #789 on: August 26, 2019, 11:18:26 am »
Except freedom of religion. You actively reject that human right. So I guess you just mean the human rights that you agree with.

I believe anyone can believe any religion they want.  How am I against religious freedom?
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Online wilber

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #790 on: August 26, 2019, 12:40:54 pm »
What do you think happens when people can't get an abortion because they can't afford it? Do you think they just go, "I guess I'll just have a baby instead?"

Do you have a problem with English? If someone suddenly decides to get an abortion when they find out a foetus is female, they aren't doing it because they can't afford it. We don't get any other "free" surgeries on demand just because we want them. Freedom of choice doesn't mean government has to pay for all your choices.

Simple soiution, doctors won't do abortions after 24 weeks unless medically necessary, don't allow the gender to be revealed until after 24 weeks.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 12:45:34 pm by wilber »
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Offline Omni

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #791 on: August 26, 2019, 01:01:08 pm »
As long as we keep Scheer away from 24 Sussex we can keep abortion chatter on political forums and such, and leave the real discussion between a woman and her doctor.

Offline waldo

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #792 on: August 26, 2019, 02:25:37 pm »
Simple solution, doctors won't do abortions after 24 weeks unless medically necessary, don't allow the gender to be revealed until after 24 weeks.

member wilber! Still waiting for your stats/numbers on 'sex-selection abortions' in Canada... still waiting...

please stop your mansplaining and have a dose of reality:


Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #793 on: August 26, 2019, 02:30:46 pm »
" Canadian women and allies are afraid and deserve to know Scheer and Conservative Party of Canada will see women’s rights as human rights and not reopen debate or {attempt to} find a back door. Canadians — and Canadian women in particular — deserve to know whether or not the Conservative Party of Canada would take us backwards by restricting or undermining a woman’s right to choose"

Unborn baby's rights aren't human rights?  Hey!

Quote
during 2017's CPC leadership campaign, weak Andy stated:  ... most clearly {yet} another CPC ploy to attempt to extend legal status to a fetus.

How dare he!  What a monster!

Quote
We don't tell anyone that they have to park their conscience or their faith at the door. It's important that the next leader of our party not only allows that, but celebrates that tradition of having free votes on matters of conscience

See that's where Andy and the CPC are full of BS.  If it were Muslims trying to bring their faith into Parliamentary legislation, we can guess how they'd react.
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Online wilber

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #794 on: August 26, 2019, 02:37:11 pm »
member wilber! Still waiting for your stats/numbers on 'sex-selection abortions' in Canada... still waiting...



How do you know if no one will ask the question? It is serious enough that BC will not schedule an ultrasound for the purpose of determining gender, nor will they extend a scheduled session for the purpose. So yes, it is seen as an issue by the medical profession in some parts of the country.

So waldo, do you approve of abortion as a means to manipulate the gender of children and do you think government should pay for it?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 02:38:51 pm by wilber »
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