Author Topic: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?  (Read 26828 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #390 on: June 17, 2019, 03:04:04 pm »
Sweet Moral Equivalency. Again a CPC government will not restrict the rights of women to have access to abortion. And through 9 years of Stephen Harper it's clear that they wont.

why should pro-choice proponents believe Scheer... many have made the case that he was only elected CPC leader because of anti-abortion groups... just last month 12 CPC members attended this years "March for Life anti-choice rally". What are pro-choice proponents to think when CPC members march in anti-choice rallies, when CPC members sponsor screenings for anti-choice films, when CPC members offer pledges to "fight to make abortion unthinkable in our lifetime?

 

Offline Omni

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #391 on: June 17, 2019, 03:13:57 pm »
Sweet Moral Equivalency. Again a CPC government will not restrict the rights of women to have access to abortion. And through 9 years of Stephen Harper it's clear that they wont.

So now the Liberals want to keep the issue as a wedge by introducing people's personal view into it. Because Scheer won't ban people who don't believe in abortions he actually supports banning it, and will ban it.

And it's all or nothing. If you feel there should be some reasonable restrictions on abortion, you're just as bad as someone who won't allow abortion under any circumstances.

Pretty gross politics actually.

Actually, under Harper between 2006 and 2012 3 Conservative proposals related to pregnancy and unborn children were brought to the floor of the House. In in 2008 did pass second reading but died on the order paper when parliament was dissolved.
Scheer said during campaign comments that HE wouldn't advance any proposals on the issue but backbenches would be allowed to and also to vote their conscience. I wouldn't be to sure that Scheer isn't simply snowballing.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #392 on: June 17, 2019, 03:19:50 pm »
Sweet Moral Equivalency.

I don't think either right is a moral issue.  Do you support abortion rights? 

I wouldn't want someone in a political party who wants to remove rights from a group of citizens based on an ancient book.


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Again a CPC government will not restrict the rights of women to have access to abortion. And through 9 years of Stephen Harper it's clear that they wont.

As someone else pointed out, NGOs lost funding because of women's reproductive health issues and the Harper govt's stance.   So, yes...  they threw their base some anti-abortion red meat..  I think it's fair to ask questions about Scheer's potential policies given his previous statements on the issue.


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And it's all or nothing. If you feel there should be some reasonable restrictions on abortion, you're just as bad as someone who won't allow abortion under any circumstances.

Not sure where anyone actually said this.  You're straw-manning the argument.


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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #393 on: June 17, 2019, 04:17:40 pm »
The Harper government has a terrible track record, removing funding from NGOs that provide women's reproductive services.

What's really frustrating is that we have to choose between these religious nutters like Harper and Scheer and social justice nutters like Trudeau and May etc.  There's no reasonable alternative in the middle.  Even someone along the thought lines of a Chretien or Martin would be a decent choice, or a PC Joe Clark type.  Ontario went from Kathleen Wynne to Doug Ford.  What a joke, they're both insane.

Personally I think you'd have to be nuts to run for any leadership given all the 24/7 media and social media these days and the stress that puts on you and your family,  so its mostly only nutters that run for leadership.  I dunno.  This country is going to ****.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #394 on: June 17, 2019, 04:25:50 pm »
The courts have said voting and abortion are Constitutional rights that women have. 

The courts never said that.  They said the specific anti-abortion law previously in the Criminal Code was unconstitutional.  There's no constitutional right to have an abortion or any constitutional right to limit or ban abortions.  In fact, there's no laws whatsoever in Canada having anything to do with abortion. The issue is dead, as of now its between a woman and her doctor and the medical boards.

Woman's right to vote is protected in the Charter and elsewhere in law.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #395 on: June 17, 2019, 04:26:09 pm »
What's really frustrating is that we have to choose between these religious nutters like Harper and Scheer and social justice nutters like Trudeau and May etc.
Well at least the "religious nutters" are limited by the courts. The courts have shown themselves to be cheerleaders for "social justice" nutters which makes them much more dangerous.

Personally I think you'd have to be nuts to run for any leadership given all the 24/7 media and social media these days and the stress that puts on you and your family,  so its mostly only nutters that run for leadership.  I dunno.  This country is going to ****.
Yes, there is a Darwinian process at work. Only certain personality types would ever consider the job. OTOH, we get the leaders we deserve. We live in a society where partisans openly advocate a thought police and require that candidates not only support the policies they want but they have to believe that those policies are moral absolutes.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 04:31:29 pm by TimG »
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #396 on: June 17, 2019, 04:34:09 pm »
why should pro-choice proponents believe Scheer... many have made the case that he was only elected CPC leader because of anti-abortion groups... just last month 12 CPC members attended this years "March for Life anti-choice rally". What are pro-choice proponents to think when CPC members march in anti-choice rallies, when CPC members sponsor screenings for anti-choice films, when CPC members offer pledges to "fight to make abortion unthinkable in our lifetime?

It's not called pro-life now but Anti-choice  :D  Here I thought a woman had a right to choose whether a **** ejaculates inside her vaginal canal, or had the right to demand her and her partner use multiple methods of BC properly!  Given these moralized labels, Why not just call it pro-kill babies vs anti-kill babies.  The evil anti-kill babies Scheer strikes again!
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #397 on: June 17, 2019, 04:35:18 pm »
I don't think either right is a moral issue.  Do you support abortion rights? 

What is then?  An economic issue?  An environmental issue?  Certainly there is nothing moral about killing or not killing unborn babies.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #398 on: June 17, 2019, 04:37:16 pm »
What is then?  An economic issue?  An environmental issue?  Certainly there is nothing moral about killing or not killing unborn babies.

A bodily autonomy issue... 

I guess an argument could be made for a moral judgement, but if this is based on an ancient text, then **** off; you don't get a say.

Offline Omni

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #399 on: June 17, 2019, 04:40:32 pm »
Well at least the "religious nutters" are limited by the courts. The courts have shown themselves to be cheerleaders for "social justice" nutters which makes them much more dangerous.
Yes, there is a Darwinian process at work. Only certain personality types would ever consider the job. OTOH, we get the leaders we deserve. We live in a society where partisans openly advocate a thought police and require that candidates not only support the policies they want but they have to believe that those policies are moral absolutes.

Speak for yourself. I prefer to be governed by laws that come from the idea of fairness than some crap that came out of some stupid book that the religious nutters believe was written by some deity that exists out in space or somewhere. 

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #400 on: June 17, 2019, 04:50:15 pm »
A bodily autonomy issue... 

I guess an argument could be made for a moral judgement, but if this is based on an ancient text, then **** off; you don't get a say.

I'm not religious.  But everyone gets a say.  That's like saying "men don't get a say!".  Everyone should have a say when unborn babies are being killed.  It's like saying "you don't own black slaves or own a plantation or live in the USA, so you shouldn't get a say on slavery so stfu".  We live in a democracy, and as per the Charter, saying someone has no right to an opinion because of their religion or gender/sex is unconstitutional discrimination.  Now yes, those religious opinions may not be illogical  but that's a different story.  The Supreme Court of Canada said that the government has a right to protect the unborn, such as in late-term abortions:

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As Political Science Professor Janine Brodie wrote in an essay published shortly after the 1988 decision:

The majority of the judges (5 of 7) had decided that Section 251 violated Canadian women’s constitutional rights to the security of the person. Only one, however, Madam Justice Bertha Wilson, declared that women had a right to an abortion in the early stages of pregnancy. Moreover, all of the majority decisions conceded the state’s interest in protecting the foetus. 5

More recently, in the aftermath of much media coverage across the country regarding an erroneous understanding of the 1988 Morgentaler decision, former PEI Supreme Court Justice Gerard Mitchell in a letter published in Charlottetown’s newspaper, The Guardian, explained:

None of the seven judges held that there was a constitutional right to abortion on demand. All of the judges acknowledged the state has a legitimate interest in protecting the unborn. Even Madam Justice Wilson, who rendered the most liberal opinion in favour of a woman’s rights, advocated an approach to abortion that would balance those rights with the state’s interest in protecting the unborn. 6

Madam Justice Wilson felt that at some point later in the pregnancy, the state’s interest in the protection of the fetus becomes “compelling” and would justify Parliament enacting legislation to restrict abortion in order to protect the fetus

http://www.morgentalerdecision.ca/charter-right-to-abortion/
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #401 on: June 17, 2019, 04:51:07 pm »
It's not called pro-life now but Anti-choice

That is exactly what it is. I don't support having an abortion, but I don't think my opinion should dictate to a woman what she can do. The anti-choice people however believe they have a right to enforce their ideas on a woman.
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Offline TimG

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #402 on: June 17, 2019, 04:52:55 pm »
I guess an argument could be made for a moral judgement, but if this is based on an ancient text, then **** off; you don't get a say.
Why does a book have to be involved? The social justice crowd is filled with people who adher to new age spiritualism/gaia worship nonsense. Look at all the people who felt we should make development decisions based on an old man having a dream about a bear.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 04:58:14 pm by TimG »
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #403 on: June 17, 2019, 05:04:32 pm »
Speak for yourself. I prefer to be governed by laws that come from the idea of fairness than some crap that came out of some stupid book that the religious nutters believe was written by some deity that exists out in space or somewhere.

Well to be fair, social justice nutters have a lot of stupid ideas that come from stupid books as well lol.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #404 on: June 17, 2019, 05:10:50 pm »
That is exactly what it is. I don't support having an abortion, but I don't think my opinion should dictate to a woman what she can do. The anti-choice people however believe they have a right to enforce their ideas on a woman.

That's because these women want to kill unborn human lives.  Most pro-life people don't care what women do with their lives in any other regard.  They can get boob jobs or cut their legs off, nobody cares.  It's not just her body, another life and another body is involved, which is why it's such a complicated moral issue.
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