Author Topic: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?  (Read 26770 times)

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Offline Boges

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #225 on: May 01, 2019, 02:13:40 pm »
Bribe.

That money is probably already spent. And people will still feel increased costs of essential goods.

Offline Omni

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #226 on: May 01, 2019, 02:39:27 pm »
Bribe.

That money is probably already spent. And people will still feel increased costs of essential goods.

You can call it a bribe or whatever blows your hair back. Let's see how effective it is.
If you want to see a real bribe, go take a look at what trump did with corp. tax rate.

Offline Boges

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #227 on: May 01, 2019, 03:45:57 pm »
If you want to see a real bribe, go take a look at what trump did with corp. tax rate.

You won't find me defending what Trump does.

I am of the opinion that Carbon pricing is an rather ineffective strategy in weening us off Carbon. Because we've built societies around using Carbon to get around. So small penalties for using carbon will just be absorbed.

The real way to change behaviour is providing affordable alternatives, which governments seem crappy at doing.

FIT's on very expensive cars and electricity methods don't count. These solutions have to be attainable for a good portion of the population.

Offline Omni

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #228 on: May 01, 2019, 04:06:47 pm »
You won't find me defending what Trump does.

I am of the opinion that Carbon pricing is an rather ineffective strategy in weening us off Carbon. Because we've built societies around using Carbon to get around. So small penalties for using carbon will just be absorbed.

The real way to change behaviour is providing affordable alternatives, which governments seem crappy at doing.

FIT's on very expensive cars and electricity methods don't count. These solutions have to be attainable for a good portion of the population.

These things don't just happen overnight. Just look back through history when the horseless carriage first came to be. None but the wealthy could afford them but we managed to get over a billion on the road over time. It will take some time to wean ourselves off of them as well. But it is worthwhile to do so.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #229 on: May 01, 2019, 04:38:51 pm »
Carbon tax makes sense only if there's viable alternatives to using carbon.  Is there EV farm equipment/tractors?  EV trucks for shipping?  EV airplanes?

A carbon tax will be more useful in future years when such technology becomes more available, and runs on a power grid that uses less fossil fuel.

I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of the carbon tax.  Canada makes up less than 2% of global carbon emissions.  What are the costs associated with the tax, and what are the benefits, and factoring them both, is it worth the extra cost to living?  Is the tax going to make a difference in global CO2?  If it does, are the costs worth the economic drain?  What are the projections of global CO2 savings for this tax?

Somebody in this thread is going to try to answer that question but I doubt they have any idea. If the Liberals and provincial govs are going to sell the idea of the tax, then hammer these #'s home to taxpayers, if they even know them. All I've seen the gov do thus far is scare people with reports that Canada will be more affected by CC, but that has no connection to the actual effectiveness of this tax policy, which leads me to think that the tax probably has more to do with Trudeau-ish naive do-goodery & virtue signalling than actual efficacy.  The avg taxpayer only knows that it now costs more to live and do business.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #230 on: May 01, 2019, 04:40:39 pm »
Carbon tax makes sense only if there's viable alternatives to using carbon.

Yes, the bus, bike, and your feet are a very viable alternative that have been around for centuries, centuries, and eons.

Offline Omni

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #231 on: May 01, 2019, 05:13:49 pm »
Carbon tax makes sense only if there's viable alternatives to using carbon.  Is there EV farm equipment/tractors?  EV trucks for shipping?  EV airplanes?

A carbon tax will be more useful in future years when such technology becomes more available, and runs on a power grid that uses less fossil fuel.

I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of the carbon tax.  Canada makes up less than 2% of global carbon emissions.  What are the costs associated with the tax, and what are the benefits, and factoring them both, is it worth the extra cost to living?  Is the tax going to make a difference in global CO2?  If it does, are the costs worth the economic drain?  What are the projections of global CO2 savings for this tax?

Somebody in this thread is going to try to answer that question but I doubt they have any idea. If the Liberals and provincial govs are going to sell the idea of the tax, then hammer these #'s home to taxpayers, if they even know them. All I've seen the gov do thus far is scare people with reports that Canada will be more affected by CC, but that has no connection to the actual effectiveness of this tax policy, which leads me to think that the tax probably has more to do with Trudeau-ish naive do-goodery & virtue signalling than actual efficacy.  The avg taxpayer only knows that it now costs more to live and do business.

Yes there ARE EV farm equipment, (John Deere is a leader) delivery trucks, and Harbor Air has recently refitted a Beaver to be an EV airplane. 

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #232 on: May 01, 2019, 05:22:19 pm »
Yes, the bus, bike, and your feet are a very viable alternative that have been around for centuries, centuries, and eons.

You cut my quote off.  Is there EV farm equipment/tractors?  EV trucks for shipping?  EV airplanes?

If there's not viable alternatives to those, you're just making cost of living more expensive.  Adding carbon tax to airplane travel is the government saying airplane travel is bad, so we're going to disincentivize you from traveling outside the continent by making business and vacations outside the continent more expensive.   

There's also a ton of places in this country, and especially in this country (namely rural), where transportation by bus, bike, or walking is not possible.  Just about every rural person living in this country, including aboriginals, who need to drive into town to buy things because there's no buses just got effed by this government.  They also made most everything more expensive to buy, so poor people and aboriginals again are effed, along with everyone else.  If your economy runs on fossil fuels, you're taxing life.

Now let's say this carbon tax miraculously reduces Canada's CO2 output by an astonishing 20%.  That would reduce the global CO2 output by about 0.3, which would do next to nothing to combat climate change.

Personally, I think we should focus on things every Canadian can do that will cost them nothing or virtually nothing, like installing lights in new/renovated buildings/homes that turn off automatically when you leave the room, or having a switch running to the breaker box you turn off when you go to bed or leave the house that switches off all unnecessary circuits, ie: laundry room.  We need a system that makes a difference yet leaves Alberta oil and farmer Joe's tractor alone, because the world needs requires those and they can't be replaced anytime soon.  But alas every party in Parliament is headed by morons.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #233 on: May 01, 2019, 05:31:13 pm »
There's also a ton of places in this country, and especially in this country (namely rural), where transportation by bus, bike, or walking is not possible.  Just about every rural person living in this country, including aboriginals, who need to drive into town to buy things because there's no buses just got effed by this government.

Yes, we have been investing heavily over the past century on making living in rural areas highly dependent on personal vehicles. Time to stop that waste, and make proper investments.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #234 on: May 01, 2019, 05:57:59 pm »
Yes there ARE EV farm equipment, (John Deere is a leader) delivery trucks, and Harbor Air has recently refitted a Beaver to be an EV airplane.

How expensive are they?  How much carbon does the energy grids powering these EVs use?  Will companies who switch to them be put out of business by companies who don't?  Will countries whose companies don't use EV kick our asses in the global market and again put our businesses out of business, or at least put our economy in the **** tank?

Ahh the tragedy of the commons.

EVs are coming.  They'll be here soon and be bought by us when the market decides they're ready.  What makes me sleep at night is knowing that in 100 years humans will have the technology to create glaciers, re-freeze the arctic, repair/recreate the barrier reef, and restock the oceans with purple elephants with gills if we want.

I don't wish this to be the case, I'm just the messenger.  I accepted years ago that utopian dreams are for naive well-meaning fools who haven't taken the time to figure out that reality sometimes doesn't match what we want our perfect world to be. 

Sincerely,
a former Marxist sympathizer (unlike Trudeau Sr and Jr, who never stopped being Marxist sympathizers)
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #235 on: May 01, 2019, 06:04:52 pm »
Yes, we have been investing heavily over the past century on making living in rural areas highly dependent on personal vehicles. Time to stop that waste, and make proper investments.

Let's murder all rural people by making them starve and freeze.

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Offline wilber

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #236 on: May 01, 2019, 06:54:42 pm »
The point is that people will reduce the time they spend on the road when they don't have to. Yes you may need to drive to work but pick up the groceries on the way home instead of going home first and then back to the store. And by doing so most people will find the tax to be neutral or they may actually benefit.

You don't think people already do that?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #237 on: May 01, 2019, 08:05:43 pm »
You don't think people already do that?

They do here in BC where the carbon tax has been revenue neutral and emissions have been reduced.

Offline Omni

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #238 on: May 01, 2019, 08:08:31 pm »
How expensive are they?  How much carbon does the energy grids powering these EVs use?  Will companies who switch to them be put out of business by companies who don't?  Will countries whose companies don't use EV kick our asses in the global market and again put our businesses out of business, or at least put our economy in the **** tank?

Ahh the tragedy of the commons.

EVs are coming.  They'll be here soon and be bought by us when the market decides they're ready.  What makes me sleep at night is knowing that in 100 years humans will have the technology to create glaciers, re-freeze the arctic, repair/recreate the barrier reef, and restock the oceans with purple elephants with gills if we want.

I don't wish this to be the case, I'm just the messenger.  I accepted years ago that utopian dreams are for naive well-meaning fools who haven't taken the time to figure out that reality sometimes doesn't match what we want our perfect world to be. 

Sincerely,
a former Marxist sympathizer (unlike Trudeau Sr and Jr, who never stopped being Marxist sympathizers)

EV's are here and we are already buying them. and maybe you should go back to sleep and visit your purple elephants.

Offline wilber

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Re: Just Who is the CPC Leader - Andrew Scheer?
« Reply #239 on: May 01, 2019, 09:37:50 pm »
They do here in BC where the carbon tax has been revenue neutral and emissions have been reduced.

Not anymore, Horgan has put the carbon tax into the general revenue pot. He has to get the rest of the province to pay for removing those bridge tolls somehow, not to mention getting rid of MSP premiums. Oops, I just did.

The same will happen to the federal carbon tax, that revenue will be just to tempting not to raid, particularly if a government is running deficits.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 09:39:40 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC