Author Topic: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?  (Read 762 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« on: November 16, 2017, 09:45:22 am »
This is an article on the selection of a new supreme court judge. You'll notice that in the entire article the word 'merit' never appears.

This is what's wrong with this government. It's all about how something looks. It's never about actually doing the right thing.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/trudeaus-decision-on-supreme-court-appointment-tangled-in-race-gender-politics/article36999295/
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 09:53:22 am »
This is an article on the selection of a new supreme court judge. You'll notice that in the entire article the word 'merit' never appears.

This is what's wrong with this government. It's all about how something looks. It's never about actually doing the right thing.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/trudeaus-decision-on-supreme-court-appointment-tangled-in-race-gender-politics/article36999295/

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A bilingual former law dean at the University of Calgary…

I can totally see how you would think this woman has no merit to be a judge.   ::)

The word merit doesn’t appear, because the person writing the critical opinion piece doesn’t mention the word...   


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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 10:02:00 am »
I can totally see how you would think this woman has no merit to be a judge.   ::)


I'm confused.  Is it the "female" part of her that removes her merit?

Offline wilber

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 10:29:15 am »
The word wasn't used but there was a lot about their relative merits and experience in that article. Balancing regional , gender and cultural factors is a fact of life in Canadian government. Maybe we should ask Trump for advice. Turpel-Lafond did a fine job as children's advocate in BC. That's all I know about any of them.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 11:04:08 am by wilber »
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 10:57:48 am »
I can totally see how you would think this woman has no merit to be a judge.   ::)

I never said she has no merit. I never commented on her at all.
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The word merit doesn’t appear, because the person writing the critical opinion piece doesn’t mention the word...

And the irony is you don't even understand why that matters.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 11:05:14 am »
The word wasn't used but there was a lot about there relative merits and experience in that article. Balancing regional , gender and cultural factors is a fact of life in Canadian government. Maybe we should ask Trump for advice. Turpel-Lafond did a fine job as children's advocate in BC. That's all I know about any of them.

No, there was nothing about merit. The discussion about the 'qualifications' centred on race, gender and bilingualism.
There was nothing about so and so was famous as an outstanding constitutional scholar, or so and so is noted for their brilliant decision writing, or so and so was responsible for ground breaking decisions. Nothing like that. One line was especially pertinent. It mentioned a lawyer, but said he was qualified presuming the Liberals were looking for a white guy, but that was considered unlikely.

Now let's examine the reality of senior lawyers and judges in Canada. Probably 75% of them are white men.  It stands to reason, then, that ignoring them ignores 75% of the best candidates.

Now let's look at bilingualism. probably no more than 4% of Canadians are functionally bilingual, and most are in Quebec. Eliminate the white guys and eliminate the unilingual Anglos and how big a pool does that leave you to choose from, especially in western Canada?

Instead of choosing the best from among thousands of lawyers and judges you're left scrambling to try and find someone from among a few dozen who might be able to do the job. And odds are none of them are the best.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 11:44:05 am »
The article is a conservative opinion piece. In that context, it’s pretty obvious why the author doesn’t use the word merit. It’s outrage **** for people who have nothing of substance to criticize about the judiciary.

Offline waldo

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 11:57:10 am »
merit criteria... is integral to the defined qualifications and assessment process


Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial Affairs Canada --- SCC Appointments --- Qualifications and Assessment Criteria

http://www.fja-cmf.gc.ca/scc-csc/qualifications-eng.html

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Advisory Board to select next Supreme Court Justice --- process & make-up of board

https://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2017/07/17/prime-minister-announces-advisory-board-select-next-supreme-court-justice

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Offline Goddess

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 02:16:07 pm »
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Now let's examine the reality of senior lawyers and judges in Canada. Probably 75% of them are white men.  It stands to reason, then, that ignoring them ignores 75% of the best candidates.

Aren't you kind of assuming that the 75% white men are there because they're the "best candidates"?  There might be other reasons why they're in those positions, not necessarily because they were the best candidate.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 03:22:34 pm »
Aren't you kind of assuming that the 75% white men are there because they're the "best candidates"?  There might be other reasons why they're in those positions, not necessarily because they were the best candidate.

Not really. Law tends to be unique to individual countries. I don't think we get a lot of lawyers immigrating from Somalia, China or Pakistan, for example. Which means the flood of non-white immigrants we've received since the 1970s is unlikely to contain many. And while visible minorities now constitute just under 20% of our population that is a relatively new and growing phenomenon, and most are immigrants. Likewise the percentage of women in the legal profession has been growing by leaps and bounds, but was proportionately quite low until it started rising in the 1970s. And it would have taken time for those few women to push their way into what was a male-dominated profession, so there would be few in the best jobs for decades. Not saying there aren't some bright lawyers who are neither male nor white, but they'd be proportionately low in the senior ranks now. And the ones who are bilingual would be an even smaller number since the majority of visible minorities settle outside Quebec.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 03:23:20 pm »
The article is a conservative opinion piece. In that context, it’s pretty obvious why the author doesn’t use the word merit. It’s outrage **** for people who have nothing of substance to criticize about the judiciary.

I think judges being appointed because of their breasts or skin pigmentation is more than enough reason to criticize the judiciary. Even if one ignores their efforts at rewriting law and remaking society without benefit of getting elected first.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Peter F

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2017, 06:38:09 pm »
Lordy. Without a single clue as to who is more metitorious to who, Sir John claims that a female couldn't possibly be the most qualified for the position. Or a bilingual person of this sex or that. Well they could conceivably be the one, yes, but are obviously not because of the numbers. Sir John knows nothing about who has the proper merit and who doesn't.
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guest4

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2017, 06:47:04 pm »
I think judges being appointed because of their breasts or skin pigmentation is more than enough reason to criticize the judiciary. Even if one ignores their efforts at rewriting law and remaking society without benefit of getting elected first.

So in your world, if they aren't white and male, they aren't  qualified to be judges.   

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 06:49:21 pm »
Lordy. Without a single clue as to who is more metitorious to who, Sir John claims that a female couldn't possibly be the most qualified for the position. Or a bilingual person of this sex or that. Well they could conceivably be the one, yes, but are obviously not because of the numbers.

I understand that in any discussion in which you are involved, logic is an unwelcome and disturbing visitor at the table. But I'm afraid I'll have to go with it regardless.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Is this really the way to pick a supreme court judge?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 06:50:50 pm »
So in your world, if they aren't white and male, they aren't  qualified to be judges.   

If that was what I meant to say I would have said it. You might have noticed, not that you're very perceptive, that I really don't mince words much. If that was how you read it that is just another indication of your lack of cognitive abilities.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum