Author Topic: Immigration policy  (Read 3760 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline MH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9398
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2018, 09:45:51 am »
We have NO attitudinal screening on immigrants. It was eliminated many years ago.
Harper never suggested any that I'm aware of. Polls taken by the Toronto Star and CBC showed 2/3rds of Canadians agreed with her, including majorities of both Liberal and NDP voters.
Only Kellie Lietch ever suggested it.

Ok.

Offline Rue

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 835
  • The beast feeds on fear - I feast on the beast.
  • Location: inside a matrix
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2018, 07:42:48 am »
There are problems with our immigration policy yes.

However saying there are problems with our immigration policies and then in the next breath inferring  immigrants are criminals based on subjective anecdotal observations is illogical.

Whether immigrants commit crimes is determine by using proper objective methodology. If anything research and statistics has not shown imigrants are necessarily criminals or more likely to be criminals and I would invite Sir John to provide the research where it shows this.

I would suggest there is a reason his posts on immigrants always return to his subjective anecdotal observations and no hard proof.

He would also dismiss articles like this:

https://crdcn.org/immigrants-and-crime-evidence-canada

https://www.immigroup.com/news/does-immigration-cause-more-crime

https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/79009/3/Jung_Seyun_Maria_201706_PhD_thesis.pdf

My comment is that immigration policy should be based on:

1-bringing in to Canada needed skilled workers
2-bringing in to Canada needed skilled trades people
3-bring in to Canada legitimate foreign investors and businesses that would expand operations into Canada hiring Canadians and contributing
to our economy.

Believe it or not our immigration policy tries to do the above. Its not perfect, its cumbersome, people try take advantage of it and misrepresent themselves to get in via 1-3 but its there and tries to do the above with an expedited entry process if the applicant meets the entitlement criteria.

Where we have problems is not with legitimate immigrants coming in with 1-3 above. They are screened and have to speak English or French if goingt o Quebec., its with:

4-family reunification
5-bogus refugee applications
6-illegal immigrant entry now flooding our borders.

In regards to 4, in particular countries and cultures where arranged marriages are the norm, family reunification has been abused and thousands of prospective brides are finding themselves dumped and on welfare in Canada as people use marriages as a way to get citizenship and then leave their wives.

In regards to 5, the current refugee process is flooded with persons who can not speak English or French and can not qualify for immigration so use the refugee process as a method to circumvent the immigration application process they know they would be rejected from.

In regards to 6 which is closely related to 5, coyotes, or people smugglers working with organized crime, organized terrorist cells, organized paedophole and prostitution rings use the refugee process and illegal entry as their primary methods to smuggle people in and out of the country being used in sex rings, to transport drugs, weapons, etc.

Our current government and past Liberal governments and Conservative governments have failed to reform the refugee system. We signed onto a UN Refugee Convention agreement that we then incorporated into our federal immigration laws which fails to understand reality. It was drafted by elitist academics from sheltered environments who had no clue what the real world is.

Had we truly been interested in helping refugees we would simply each year go to refugee sites and bring in a certain amount of refugees after setting up private sponsors via churches, mosques, synagogues and non profit organizations. This was what Stephen Harper did and Trudeau decided to take credit for the Syrian refugees Harper brought in. After posing and using these refugees as monkey props handing them winter coats and giggling, trudea was off to another photo shoot. Those refugees he posed with were privately sponsored.

Since then what the Trudeau government has done is allow hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants to flood into Canada. In fact Canada signed a convention that said if people came into Canada applying for refugee statys  from "designated" nations, they would be deported back to those nations  and asked to apply for refugee status in those nations. The United States is one of those nations.

What has happened is Trump has **** down on illegal immigrants and so they now after living in the US 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years have packed their bags, and take buses and taxis to the Canadian border where they walk across our border.

The Canadian government has told them, if you enter a legal port of entry, i.e., a border crossing and apply for refugee status, you'll be sent back to the US where you will probably lose your refugee hearing application-but if you come across the border illegally, you CAN apply for refugee status and the designated country rule won't apply.

In the interim while you wait for your hearing we will put you up in a hotel and give you  free dental and medical care not to mention prescription medication, education and training benefits-in fact we will treat you better than actual Canadian citizens and far better than Canadian native peoples who Trudeau likes to cry and shed tears over.

Trudeau's Immigration Minister, a Somali refugee, with a direct conflict of interest will make sure anyone coming illegally will get a hearing.

Oh by the way, if your hearing takes too long, you can argue your Charter rights for a speedy hearing were violated. Oh hey now, what with the huge back log that means tens of thousands of you now waiting in hotels automatically can make that argument to get permanent and instant citizenship.

As well while Trudeau and his Immigration Minister allow Canada to be flooded with illegals who then apply for refugee status, the Refugee Board has told its members to follow a decision by Board Member Lois Figg, that says people from Nigeria should mot be considered refugees meaning what exactly?

No one rejected is deported. We don't do that.

As of today we have about 2-8,000 Nigerians coming to Canada each month illegally all from the US. But no worries our RCMP help them climb in off US soil.

There is the problem. We have made it impossible for legitimate refugees to come to Canada. The legitimate refugees live within walking distance of conflict zones in squalid facilities, suffering from tuberculosis, diaheria, typhoid fever, malaria,  stomach parasites, e-coli or being raped by their fellow refugees. Who the hell wants them.

So we have a class of illegals flooding are borders who are neither immigrants or refugees.

They are rewarded for breaking our law by being protected by the Charter the moment they step foot on Canadian soil illegally

So our problem is not with immigrants or for that matter refugees.

Our problem is with a government that is allowing illegal immigration because it will use this to pander to ethnic votes to try get re-elected.

It also allows this current government to say if you question this illegal immigration you are anti immigrant and a racist.

No I am the son of a father whose parents were immigrants and a mother who was a refugee deported simply because she was a Jew and had to get special dispensation from a Senator in the Canadian government to stay as her medical discipline was badly needed in Montreal.

I am a Canadian- a product of immigrants (as are all Canadians) and a refugee (as some are).

I was born in Canada and taught to be bilingual and taught aboriginals were the first Canadians and everyone else came after.

I was taught to respect the British legal system and French culture of Quebec.

I am a boring Canadian.

So when I hear people **** on genuine immigrants which most Canadians are I say shut up. When I hear people **** on genuine refugees, I say shut up.

When I see bull **** liberal guilt elitists apologizing and allowing people to break the law and jump the line ahead of genuine immigrants and refugees I challenge it.

I also challenge Sir John because to me he is no different than Trudeau. He sees all immigrants in one stereotype category.

Trudeau uses it to pander thinking all immigrants blindly support illegal immigration because he Trudeau is a racist bigot. Its why he went to India flipping and flopping in black face mimicking what he thought Indians were. He's just Eddy Cantor singing Mamee in black face.

As for Sir John, I have no time for people who spit on immigrants. Immigrants built this country. We are all immigrants.

The fact that people are taking advantage of loopholes is because our idiot politicians allow those loopholes to pander for ethnic votes.

Stop scapegoating legitimate Canadian immigrants and refugees who build this country and want to build it and do not commit crimes and discuss concrete solutions to get rid of the loopholes such as:


1-deport all illegals now coming in who do not come in at a port of entry back to the US;
2-deport all refugee applications back to designated countries (safe countries they came from before Canada)for refugee hearings
3-deport illegals back to their countries of origin or offer them the option of working as employees of the Canadian government to be placed in specified communities in the North to build roads, houses, infrastructure for aboriginal and other communities.

That is a start.




« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 07:57:13 pm by Rue »
You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2018, 02:50:43 pm »
In fact Canada signed a convention that said if people came into Canada applying for refugee statys  from "designated" nations, they would be deported back to those nations  and asked to apply for refugee status in those nations. The United States is one of those nations.

I believe that agreement only applied to official border crossings where it is enforced. If you have a legal argument against that please make it.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2018, 04:35:06 pm »
There are problems with our immigration policy yes.
However saying there are problems with our immigration policies and then in the next breath inferring  immigrants are criminals based on subjective anecdotal observations is illogical.

Your entire long, blathering post seems to be based on the idea that someone, at some point, somewhere or other, 'inferred' that "immigrants" are criminals.
But virtually none of the complaints regarding the effectiveness of our immigration system is based on immigrant crime. And I rarely mention it myself.

Most opposition to our present form of immigration is based on:

A. Economics
B. Values/culture
C. The ability for Canada to assimilate

When discussing problems with immigration I would say 90%+ of my posts are with reference to the above.

Quote
Whether immigrants commit crimes is determine by using proper objective methodology. If anything research and statistics has not shown imigrants are necessarily criminals or more likely to be criminals and I would invite Sir John to provide the research where it shows this.

Given Canada keeps no crime statistics based on race or place of origin - by design - that's impossible, of course. Then again, I have never stated that immigrants, as a whole, are 'more likely to be criminals'. This is again a straw man of your own construction.

By the way, why have several levels of government vowed to not keep statistics based on race or origin? Their stated purpose is 'to not give support to racists'. That reason only works if the crime rate is higher among certain races or ethnic groups.

Quote
I would suggest there is a reason his posts on immigrants always return to his subjective anecdotal observations and no hard proof.

Yes. See above. When liberal governments vow that keeping such statistics will not be done then it's rather hard to show 'proof'.

Here's a fun game. Spot the white guy:
https://www.ottawapolice.ca/en/crime/most-wanted.asp

Would you care to make a suggestion about why, when visible minorities make up 20% of the population every wanted list seems to have mostly visible minorities?

Yes, yes, visible minorities aren't 'necessarily' immigrants, but according to the government only 30% are born in Canada and that includes lots of kids. Now maybe you turn your brain off whenever you see such lists, but some of us are more open minded and wondering.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/wanted

Quote
1-bringing in to Canada needed skilled workers
2-bringing in to Canada needed skilled trades people
3-bring in to Canada legitimate foreign investors and businesses that would expand operations into Canada hiring Canadians and contributing
to our economy.

I have no issue with any of that. But you ignore other factors, such as cultural adaptability. Do you have any problem with importing tens of thousands of people who hate Jews every year and believe wholeheartedly in various conspiracies involving Jews? If not, then perhaps you could petition the government to do so and ask that they all live in your neighbourhood.

Quote
So our problem is not with immigrants or for that matter refugees.

There is a major problem with refugees. There are still problems with immigration. The language tests administered abroad by independent schools seem to have fairly low standards in many places. Various studies have shown the literacy rate among immigrants is very low, and that this is a strong contributor to poor economic results. In addition, too many immigrants come in as sponsored people without much in the way of skills, and many of the skills are not aligned properly with job needs here.

Quote
I also challenge Sir John because to me he is no different than Trudeau. He sees all immigrants in one stereotype category.

You clearly have read virtually nothing I've written. Your complaints about immigration and refugees are, for the most part, mirror images of what I have been saying. Are you drunk, by chance? Are you replying to the wrong person? Perhaps you could take a single thing I have actually written and reply to that rather than what you imagine I might have said or 'inferred' at some point or other in some post or other.

Quote
As for Sir John, I have no time for people who spit on immigrants. Immigrants built this country. We are all immigrants.

Yeah, that's a crock of ****. It's the mindless, dreary pablum of the unthinking Left. People born and raised here are not immigrants, legally, psychologically, emotionally or culturally. I have no idea why this ridiculous cliche continues to be so popular. Migration built almost every country on earth. The ancestors of most of the people in the UK migrated from France, Germany and Scandinavia in the distant past. They don't say "we're all immigrants'. Hell, everyone in Europe's ancestors migrated from somewhere else at some point in time. Nobody there says 'we're all immigrants'. The only place on Earth where people's ancestors were always there is Africa.

And saying 'Hey, immigrants built this country so we have to continue to have heavy immigration' is as intelligent as saying 'Hey, slavery built this country, so we have to continue to have slavery!"
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 04:42:12 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline Rue

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 835
  • The beast feeds on fear - I feast on the beast.
  • Location: inside a matrix
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2018, 07:54:28 pm »
My views on immigration haven't really changed in 35 years, since I was working as a security guard and had a lot of immigants living in my building and working with me. I wondered why they were in Canada.



I don't want it changed to suit a bunch of damned foreigners.

If we must have immigration,
 

Too many immigrants are criminals. Oh, I know we don't keep official statistics, but I can see it in the media when there are street killings and when pimps and drug dealers are named and shown. I can see it in the wanted posters the police put out. I know damn well the street gangs are full of people whose first language is not of this continent. It's ridiculous that we can't just deport these people. We should make the path to citizenship harder, and longer and make it easier to deport people before they get there.

Sir J  the above is not couched  by the other words  you pad around the crux of your sentiment.

Your denial you suggested immigrants are criminal is bull ****,

You do not differentiate between legitimate immigrants and refugees from illegitimate ones.

You engage in slurs against all immigrants.

I stand by my blather, you hide from yours.
 
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 08:02:54 pm by Rue »
You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2018, 08:33:26 pm »
Sir J  the above is not couched  by the other words  you pad around the crux of your sentiment.

Your denial you suggested immigrants are criminal is bull ****,

You do not differentiate between legitimate immigrants and refugees from illegitimate ones.

You engage in slurs against all immigrants.

I stand by my blather, you hide from yours.

Saying too many are criminals is not saying all immigrants are criminals. And it is self evident most of our street crime is from ethnic groups which are primarily immigrant. You can hide from the facts in your politically correct indignation if they frighten you but I see no reason to.

You sound like those precious police and social workers in the UK who reacted with indignation and accusations when people began complaining about large groups of Pakistani men molesting young white girls. They simply ignored the evidence and called the complainers bigots.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8561
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2018, 08:54:57 pm »
Saying too many are criminals is not saying all immigrants are criminals. And it is self evident most of our street crime is from ethnic groups which are primarily immigrant. You can hide from the facts in your politically correct indignation if they frighten you but I see no reason to.

You sound like those precious police and social workers in the UK who reacted with indignation and accusations when people began complaining about large groups of Pakistani men molesting young white girls. They simply ignored the evidence and called the complainers bigots.

Got a cite for any of this? Actually as immigration has increased here, crime has decreased.

Offline MH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9398
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2018, 08:08:04 am »
There are problems with our immigration policy yes.

However saying there are problems with our immigration policies and then in the next breath inferring  immigrants are criminals based on subjective anecdotal observations is illogical.

Whether immigrants commit crimes is determine by using proper objective methodology. If anything research and statistics has not shown imigrants are necessarily criminals or more likely to be criminals and I would invite Sir John to provide the research where it shows this.

He will tell you - and he's right - that we don't gather such statistics because we're afraid of the backlash.  Which means that the backlash is going to happen anyway at some point, because there is no public engagement on the topic.

So we are effectively in a cycle of autocracy on this topic.

---   ---

My answer would be for governments to separate discussion of multiculturalism & social cohesion with immigration, and to submit the former topic to an all-topic committee.  There is no advantage anymore of having social policy in the political realm, as we can see that a political candidate can grab attention by attacking the fabric of society itself.  Create all-party committees to work out sensible approaches to these things, including engagement with the public and gathering truly held concerns from all points of the political compass in Canada.

 
Quote
My comment is that immigration policy should be based on:

1-bringing in to Canada needed skilled workers
2-bringing in to Canada needed skilled trades people
3-bring in to Canada legitimate foreign investors and businesses that would expand operations into Canada hiring Canadians and contributing
to our economy.

Believe it or not our immigration policy tries to do the above. Its not perfect, its cumbersome, people try take advantage of it and misrepresent themselves to get in via 1-3 but its there and tries to do the above with an expedited entry process if the applicant meets the entitlement criteria.

Where we have problems is not with legitimate immigrants coming in with 1-3 above. They are screened and have to speak English or French if goingt o Quebec., its with:

4-family reunification
5-bogus refugee applications
6-illegal immigrant entry now flooding our borders.

In regards to 4, in particular countries and cultures where arranged marriages are the norm, family reunification has been abused and thousands of prospective brides are finding themselves dumped and on welfare in Canada as people use marriages as a way to get citizenship and then leave their wives.

In regards to 5, the current refugee process is flooded with persons who can not speak English or French and can not qualify for immigration so use the refugee process as a method to circumvent the immigration application process they know they would be rejected from.

In regards to 6 which is closely related to 5, coyotes, or people smugglers working with organized crime, organized terrorist cells, organized paedophole and prostitution rings use the refugee process and illegal entry as their primary methods to smuggle people in and out of the country being used in sex rings, to transport drugs, weapons, etc.

Our current government and past Liberal governments and Conservative governments have failed to reform the refugee system. We signed onto a UN Refugee Convention agreement that we then incorporated into our federal immigration laws which fails to understand reality. It was drafted by elitist academics from sheltered environments who had no clue what the real world is.

Had we truly been interested in helping refugees we would simply each year go to refugee sites and bring in a certain amount of refugees after setting up private sponsors via churches, mosques, synagogues and non profit organizations. This was what Stephen Harper did and Trudeau decided to take credit for the Syrian refugees Harper brought in. After posing and using these refugees as monkey props handing them winter coats and giggling, trudea was off to another photo shoot. Those refugees he posed with were privately sponsored.

Since then what the Trudeau government has done is allow hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants to flood into Canada. In fact Canada signed a convention that said if people came into Canada applying for refugee statys  from "designated" nations, they would be deported back to those nations  and asked to apply for refugee status in those nations. The United States is one of those nations.

"Illegal immigrants" is now a political term.  Refugees are processed according to a system.  If there is a crisis, then the government's job is to manage the system to deal with it.

Trudeau stupidly implied that we were changing policy in response to Trump's blocking of Muslims coming to the US and that set a beacon to attract more refugees.  Of course the government hadn't planned for that.

Yet another reason to take this kind of morality out of the political realm.

Quote
The Canadian government has told them, if you enter a legal port of entry, i.e., a border crossing and apply for refugee status, you'll be sent back to the US where you will probably lose your refugee hearing application-but if you come across the border illegally, you CAN apply for refugee status and the designated country rule won't apply.

Yes but 'has told them'... isn't right.  Nothing changed there.  Their problem was moral signalling ... which was done for political reasons.

Quote
I was born in Canada and taught to be bilingual and taught aboriginals were the first Canadians and everyone else came after.

I was taught to respect the British legal system and French culture of Quebec.

I am a boring Canadian.

Boring Canadians engage in respectful debate, so I ask you to use the term 'refugee' rather than the populist bullshit term of illegal.

So when I hear people **** on genuine immigrants which most Canadians are I say shut up. When I hear people **** on genuine refugees, I say shut up.

Quote
When I see bull **** liberal guilt elitists apologizing ...

Yes, let's be real.

Offline TimG

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2018, 08:15:40 am »
Boring Canadians engage in respectful debate, so I ask you to use the term 'refugee' rather than the populist bullshit term of illegal.
No one entering from the US is a refugee.
People who deliberately refuse to cross at manned border crossings between the US and Canada are illegally entering the country.
The are illegal migrants.
Insisting on using inaccurate words because you find the accurate words make you uncomfortable is exactly the kind of crap that fuels the populism you complain about.
Disagree Disagree x 1 Dumb Dumb x 2 View List

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3457
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2018, 10:01:04 am »
Trudeau stupidly implied that we were changing policy in response to Trump's blocking of Muslims coming to the US and that set a beacon to attract more refugees.  Of course the government hadn't planned for that.

I completely reject that statement.

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8561
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2018, 12:33:13 pm »
No one entering from the US is a refugee.
People who deliberately refuse to cross at manned border crossings between the US and Canada are illegally entering the country.
The are illegal migrants.
Insisting on using inaccurate words because you find the accurate words make you uncomfortable is exactly the kind of crap that fuels the populism you complain about.

I'm afraid it is your words that are inaccurate. Crossing the border not at a point of entry is not an offense either under the criminal code or the immigration act as long as you do properly report your claim "without delay".




 

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2018, 01:07:21 pm »
Got a cite for any of this? Actually as immigration has increased here, crime has decreased.

A cite that most of our street crime is ethnic? or that most visible minorities are immigrants? Stats Can says 70% of visible minorities are immigrants. As for street gangs, shootings, and the like, one only has to read the papers or check the most wanted sites for the rcmp.

Or did you mean a cite for the Pakistani **** gangs which thrived for decades under the protection of politically correct government agencies? Another batch of 20 was convicted just last week.

https://nationalpost.com/news/20-men-jailed-for-sex-abuse-of-teenagers-in-northern-england

« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 01:10:33 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2018, 01:13:30 pm »
Richmond, BC, a city which is now 70% Asian, most of them immigrants from China. Does anyone really wonder why a lot of people who grew up there would feel lost and frustrated?

https://nationalpost.com/feature/richmond-b-c-in-search-of-cultural-harmony-in-north-americas-most-asian-city
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9398
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2018, 03:34:28 pm »
I completely reject that statement.

Which part ?  He tweeted that Canada would accept refugees, in response to the American policy ... and then there were more refugees at our border.

Offline MH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9398
Re: Immigration policy
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2018, 03:36:04 pm »
The are illegal migrants.
Insisting on using inaccurate words because you find the accurate words make you uncomfortable is exactly the kind of crap that fuels the populism you complain about.

I am not uncomfortable, I seek clarity and commonality of language.  If they are entering illegally, how is there a process wherein they are allowed to stay ?

I ask honestly and sincerely.