Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 14155 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1665 on: June 17, 2021, 01:54:09 pm »
Bullshit, plenty of them have party attachments. The mere fact that they are appointed by a partisan prime minister gives them a party attachment.

read it again! I said there are no official formal party attachments IN ALBERTA! But, again, given the history/results in Alberta, there has clearly been a run of candidates/elected & nominated that had strong attachments to Conservative parties (again, Reform, PC and UCP party attachments).  Somehow you have the audacity to suggest/imply this Alberta only process has been democratic! Geezaz!

The so called Independent Advisory board are government appointees, they aren't independent at all.

Aside from Labelle who had served in government under both parties, of the two other permanent members of the so called "independent" advisory committee, one is an ex Liberal staffer and the other is an ex deputy attorney general of a Liberal provincial government. No doubt the two provincial representatives will be similar choices.

the waldo calls bullshyte: provide citation to support your claim OR retract it!
=> current federal members (other than the already detailed Chair):
- Melisa Blake & Francois Rolland
=> current Alberta members:
- Elizabeth Cannon & Karen MacKenzie

This is all about control and you know it.

really, hey! There are currently NO Liberal Senators; the previous Liberal Senate Caucus was not formally affiliated to or recognized by the Liberal Party. Per PM Trudeau's want/initiative, this Caucus was dissolved in 2019 and all members became 'independent'; these members either positioned formally as Independent Senators or they became a part of a newly formed non-partisan parliamentary group, the Progressive Senate Group. This was in line with the initiative bringing forward the Advisory Board for Senate Appointments. There still continues to be a formal Conservative Senate Caucus.

Offline queenmandy85

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1666 on: June 17, 2021, 02:02:45 pm »
Remove the Prime Minister from the selection process. In fact, remove politicians from the election process.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1667 on: June 17, 2021, 02:34:56 pm »
The easiest and best solution is to abolish the position of Prime Minister. Because it is not a constitutional position, no amendment is required. All that is necessary is to dismiss the Prime Minister and appoint a qualified Governor General. Don't replace the PM. Government is an administrative process and ideology and partisanship are obstacles to Peace, Order and good Government.

Interesting thought but who would appoint that person? The position of PM is already an appointed one.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1668 on: June 17, 2021, 02:38:45 pm »
read it again! I said there are no official formal party attachments IN ALBERTA! But, again, given the history/results in Alberta, there has clearly been a run of candidates/elected & nominated that had strong attachments to Conservative parties (again, Reform, PC and UCP party attachments).  Somehow you have the audacity to suggest/imply this Alberta only process has been democratic! Geezaz!

the waldo calls bullshyte: provide citation to support your claim OR retract it!
=> current federal members (other than the already detailed Chair):
- Melisa Blake & Francois Rolland
=> current Alberta members:
- Elizabeth Cannon & Karen MacKenzie

really, hey! There are currently NO Liberal Senators; the previous Liberal Senate Caucus was not formally affiliated to or recognized by the Liberal Party. Per PM Trudeau's want/initiative, this Caucus was dissolved in 2019 and all members became 'independent'; these members either positioned formally as Independent Senators or they became a part of a newly formed non-partisan parliamentary group, the Progressive Senate Group. This was in line with the initiative bringing forward the Advisory Board for Senate Appointments. There still continues to be a formal Conservative Senate Caucus.

Do you honestly think that abolishing a title changes the way they think or act? That if you just call something independent it automatically becomes independent? That if you appoint a partisan individual to a position and call it independent they magically  become independent? Please.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 02:41:02 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline queenmandy85

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1669 on: June 17, 2021, 03:03:56 pm »
Interesting thought but who would appoint that person? The position of PM is already an appointed one.
The Queen.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1670 on: June 17, 2021, 03:05:02 pm »
Do you honestly think that abolishing a title changes the way they think or act? That if you just call something independent it automatically becomes independent? That if you appoint a partisan individual to a position and call it independent they magically  become independent? Please.

please? Thank you! Notwithstanding your underlying suspicions/claims of bias and partisanship, presumed Senate reform starts... somewhere, doing something! You farcically claim the Alberta only undertaking is "independent, non-partisan and democratic"... but to the point where you also state it doesn't matter that all other provinces aren't interested in your ridiculous posturing and Alberta's end-around attempt to ignore/negate that Supreme Court ruling I detailed.

and still waiting for your citation... or retraction - yes?

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1671 on: June 17, 2021, 03:14:47 pm »
please? Thank you! Notwithstanding your underlying suspicions/claims of bias and partisanship, presumed Senate reform starts... somewhere, doing something! You farcically claim the Alberta only undertaking is "independent, non-partisan and democratic"... but to the point where you also state it doesn't matter that all other provinces aren't interested in your ridiculous posturing and Alberta's end-around attempt to ignore/negate that Supreme Court ruling I detailed.

and still waiting for your citation... or retraction - yes?

So why dear waldo does the government hang onto control of who gets in the Senate like its very life depends on it? Reform hasn't started anywhere, Trudeau made a PR gesture but changed nothing.

I don't know what other provinces are interested in and nor do you care.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1672 on: June 17, 2021, 03:28:56 pm »
So why dear waldo does the government hang onto control of who gets in the Senate like its very life depends on it? Reform hasn't started anywhere, Trudeau made a PR gesture but changed nothing.

such hyperbole! There is now a process to be followed by all parties, all Prime Ministers... there no longer is a "list" of respective party loyalists, sycophants, media darlings, etc., to be presented for appointment! And you have a problem with this? And you favour the sham that is the Alberta alternative end-around that Supreme Court ruling I detailed? Really?

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1673 on: June 17, 2021, 03:37:37 pm »
such hyperbole! There is now a process to be followed by all parties, all Prime Ministers... there no longer is a "list" of respective party loyalists, sycophants, media darlings, etc., to be presented for appointment! And you have a problem with this? And you favour the sham that is the Alberta alternative end-around that Supreme Court ruling I detailed? Really?

Of course there are, that's why every member of the so called "Independent" Advisory Board is a Liberal appointee. There may not be an actual list but it is the PMO that will decide who is acceptable.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 03:40:44 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline queenmandy85

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1674 on: June 17, 2021, 03:46:04 pm »
My Monarchial fantasy not withstanding, in spite of all the labels and little details mentioned above, the Federal Government ( Government members and opposition) works pretty well. It is generally a pretty good reflection of the electorate. We place too much emphasis on ideology. The range of action available to any government is narrow, regardless of party.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 03:49:18 pm by queenmandy85 »
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1675 on: June 17, 2021, 04:10:45 pm »
Of course there are, that's why every member of the so called "Independent" Advisory Board is a Liberal appointee. There may not be an actual list but it is the PMO that will decide who is acceptable.

no - the PMO has nothing to do with this... you do know the difference between the PMO and the Privy Council Office, right? Members of the board are assigned as Governor in Council appointments. Geezaz member wilber, you're having a rather difficult day today, hey!

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1676 on: June 17, 2021, 05:02:31 pm »
no - the PMO has nothing to do with this... you do know the difference between the PMO and the Privy Council Office, right? Members of the board are assigned as Governor in Council appointments. Geezaz member wilber, you're having a rather difficult day today, hey!
Twist it any way you want.
The Council members are appointed by the GOVERNMENT
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1677 on: June 18, 2021, 12:54:20 am »
Twist it any way you want. The Council members are appointed by the GOVERNMENT

ya ya, is this you claiming there's been no Conservative parties associated with any of the past Alberta candidates selected, elected, nominated and then appointed as Alberta Senators? And this is what you purport to be as the model of a most democratic, independent and non-partisan undertaking, right? Such a model that no other provinces have recognized it - have followed it! Such a model that it does an end-around that Supreme Court of Canada ruling I detailed... apparently that fits with your kind of democracy, yes?

and... you made some rather dubious claims about the federal members of the Advisory Board for Senate Appointments - I challenged you to either cite support for your claims... or retract them! I'm still waiting.

Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1678 on: June 18, 2021, 02:10:39 am »
PM Trudeau has nominated the Honourable Mahmud Jamal as the next member of the Supreme Court of Canada... replacing the retiring Justice Rosalie Abella on July 1st. Fully bilingual, Justice Jamal was appointed to the Court of Appeal for Ontario in 2019 & appeared before the Supreme Court in 35 appeals. Media is 'playing up' his being the 'first person of colour' nominated to the SCOC...

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1679 on: June 18, 2021, 07:59:14 am »
you're embarrassing yourself! Would you like the waldo to detail the bios of the current 3 federal members of the Advisory Board? As well as the current 2 members from Alberta? Your underlying premise is to imply a bias within the federal members... here, let the waldo offer you a teaser by showcasing the current Chair of the Advisory Board (one of 3 federal members):





Why do  we persist with this fiction that Senators somehow represent regions when they are all selected by the federal government? How a province selects its senators should be none of the federal governments damn business.

Iíll hazard a guess at why no other provinces have not  followed suit and itís the same reason the Liberals donít want senate reform. Any reform might infringe on the powers of premiers as well as prime ministers and they are very happy with the Senate remaining an expensive non entity.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC