Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 13163 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1650 on: June 16, 2021, 11:45:50 pm »
Ya waldo, political appointments are sure to be more independent than elected representatives. Why do we bother with elections at all. Liberals aren't interested in Senate reform, they prefer the present patronage system.

huh, political appointments - say what? You clearly no nothing about the Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments and its process to review/select nomination candidates! This reform undertaking is most certainly not a, as you say, "patronage system". Like I said, you clearly no nothing about it... I doubt you were even aware of it before the waldo introduced you to it, hey!

care to speak to the backgrounds/bios of the current 2 Alberta candidates putting their names forward? They make your statement about independent elected representatives a laughOutLoud moment!
=> the one is a former United Conservative Party (UCP) president... now serving as the President of the Conservative Party association in an Edmonton riding & as the Chief Financial Officer of the UCP association in another Edmonton riding. She is also described as a close-ally of Premier Jason Kenney! You did use the word independent, right?

=> the other one is described as a social activist & an "online provocateur" - a guy also known in the past as a Senate abolitionist... a guy who reinforced his want to do away with the Senate by stating he plans to be the only Senate candidate that wants to abolish the Senate! Just the kind of person you'd want to elect to the Senate, hey member wilber!

Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1651 on: June 16, 2021, 11:56:18 pm »
What about the "independent Senate appointments process" ? Only two of the five members will actually be from the area concerned and their recommendation is not binding on the PM. And of course it is a process cooked up by the present government without the provinces signing off on it. Lot of window dressing here. Anything but leaving it to voters.

you're embarrassing yourself! Would you like the waldo to detail the bios of the current 3 federal members of the Advisory Board? As well as the current 2 members from Alberta? Your underlying premise is to imply a bias within the federal members... here, let the waldo offer you a teaser by showcasing the current Chair of the Advisory Board (one of 3 federal members):


Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1652 on: June 17, 2021, 07:59:23 am »
 :'(
still waiting member wilber; still waiting!

It doesn’t matter if other provinces have taken Alberta’s lead, provinces should have the right to choose how to select who represents them.

So Hugettte Labelle, a Francophone Ontarian chosen by a Quebec Prime Minister chairs a committee that selects Alberta’s senators. A committee composed of a majority of non Albertans. Plus a PM can still ignore any recommendations they make. How democratic. How Liberal.

Is it any wonder we wound up with Payette as GG.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 08:53:20 am by wilber »
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Offline queenmandy85

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1653 on: June 17, 2021, 09:51:39 am »
Wilber, we are a Monarchy. A democratically elected Senate goes against our Canadian form of government. Do you wish us to descend to the level of Americans and their shambolic system?
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1654 on: June 17, 2021, 10:08:30 am »
Wilber, we are a Monarchy. A democratically elected Senate goes against our Canadian form of government. Do you wish us to descend to the level of Americans and their shambolic system?

That’s just silly.  Democracy isn’t a bad thing.  Most places elect representatives to form a government.  And a democratic senate doesn’t make us bad like America. 

A triple ‘e’ senate might….  But that’s not what we’re talking about.

Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1655 on: June 17, 2021, 11:20:27 am »
It doesn’t matter if other provinces have taken Alberta’s lead, provinces should have the right to choose how to select who represents them.

"it doesn't matter" says member wilber! Ya ya, but what does it say about the unwillingness... the dismissiveness... of all other provinces in regards a so-called 'elected Senate'? What does it say, hey!

the Supreme Court ruled on the Conservative want to change the method of selection of senators by providing for direct elections: the Court said Parliament could not unanimously amend the Constitution in instituting direct elections for senatorial positions since this constituted “a radical change in the nature of one of the component parts of Parliament.” So, again, this initiative by Alberta is nothing more than an end-around attempt to usurp the ruling of the Supreme Court of Canada! Have you no respect for the constitution member wilber?

So Hugettte Labelle, a Francophone Ontarian chosen by a Quebec Prime Minister chairs a committee that selects Alberta’s senators. A committee composed of a majority of non Albertans. Plus a PM can still ignore any recommendations they make. How democratic. How Liberal.

your desperation reeks! The Chair has impeccable credentials - iMpEcCaBlE!!! You have no foundation, no basis to slag said Chair - none!

Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1656 on: June 17, 2021, 11:35:12 am »
Wilber, we are a Monarchy. A democratically elected Senate goes against our Canadian form of government. Do you wish us to descend to the level of Americans and their shambolic system?

exactly! When working as intended, that sober second thought role has significant opportunity to review and, as appropriate, improve upon the HOC intended legislation. It was never intended to have the Senate become a partisan impediment!

these 2 guys keep nattering on about democracy... the democratic vote electing/nominating Senators. Of course that's a sham as shown by the Alberta history/results where there exists no official party attachments towards selecting party aligned candidates to run for election. I emphasize "official" as the Alberta results clearly show an alignment of past elected/nominated candidates with strong/direct attachment to Conservative parties (be that Reform, PC or UCP). This is what member wilber describes as independent and democratic! Again, look no further than the short bio I provided for what is said to be one of the current leading candidates: 
Quote
=> the one is a former United Conservative Party (UCP) president... now serving as the President of the Conservative Party association in an Edmonton riding & as the Chief Financial Officer of the UCP association in another Edmonton riding. She is also described as a close-ally of Premier Jason Kenney!

Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1657 on: June 17, 2021, 12:03:18 pm »
apparently... as Green Party leader Annamie Paul contends, animosity, internal discord and infighting within the Green Party is PM Trudeau's fault/doing! Apparently PM Trudeau had spare cycles while attending the G7, NATO and EU meetings this past week!

Offline queenmandy85

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1658 on: June 17, 2021, 12:22:59 pm »
apparently... as Green Party leader Annamie Paul contends, animosity, internal discord and infighting within the Green Party is PM Trudeau's fault/doing! Apparently PM Trudeau had spare cycles while attending the G7, NATO and EU meetings this past week!
I liked David Common's comment on CBC after Ms. Paul's news conference. Prime minister "Trudeau didn't kidnap Ms. Atwin." I have a sense she was pushed into the Liberal fold. My sympathies go out to the Grits. I don't think she will be a good fit. The Greens are dead in the water. It's too bad. I wish Claire Martin would have run for the leadership.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1659 on: June 17, 2021, 12:41:16 pm »
Wilber, we are a Monarchy. A democratically elected Senate goes against our Canadian form of government. Do you wish us to descend to the level of Americans and their shambolic system?

Senators are supposed to represent their provinces, not be tools of the PMO. If it can't be reformed and that's all it's ever going to be then get rid of it.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline queenmandy85

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1660 on: June 17, 2021, 12:42:35 pm »
That’s just silly.  Democracy isn’t a bad thing.  Most places elect representatives to form a government.  And a democratic senate doesn’t make us bad like America. 

A triple ‘e’ senate might….  But that’s not what we’re talking about.
We have enough politicians in the HoC. The Senate needs to be made up of Eminent Persons who can review legislation in a non-partisan way...like that will happen.
Electing Senators is just another example of the push to erode the Monarchy, something Prime Minister Diefenbaker warned us about.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1661 on: June 17, 2021, 12:50:58 pm »
We have enough politicians in the HoC. The Senate needs to be made up of Eminent Persons who can review legislation in a non-partisan way...like that will happen.
Electing Senators is just another example of the push to erode the Monarchy, something Prime Minister Diefenbaker warned us about.

Eroding the monarchy is a great thing to happen. 

But, the Senate, other than being a relic of the British parliamentary system (NOT the monarchy like you are suggesting), is an undemocratic institution. 

We don’t need Eminent Persons (up to now, party hacks) reviewing anything.  While Trudeau has improved the senate, it is far from democratic, which should be the goal in a democracy.

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1662 on: June 17, 2021, 01:03:14 pm »
exactly! When working as intended, that sober second thought role has significant opportunity to review and, as appropriate, improve upon the HOC intended legislation. It was never intended to have the Senate become a partisan impediment!

these 2 guys keep nattering on about democracy... the democratic vote electing/nominating Senators. Of course that's a sham as shown by the Alberta history/results where there exists no official party attachments towards selecting party aligned candidates to run for election. I emphasize "official" as the Alberta results clearly show an alignment of past elected/nominated candidates with strong/direct attachment to Conservative parties (be that Reform, PC or UCP). This is what member wilber describes as independent and democratic! Again, look no further than the short bio I provided for what is said to be one of the current leading candidates:

Bullshit, plenty of them have party attachments. The mere fact that they are appointed by a partisan prime minister gives them a party attachment.

The so called Independent Advisory board are government appointees, they aren't independent at all.

Aside from Labelle who had served in government under both parties, of the two other permanent members of the so called "independent" advisory committee, one is an ex Liberal staffer and the other is an ex deputy attorney general of a Liberal provincial government.  All Ontarians. No doubt the two provincial representatives will be similar choices.

This is all about control and you know it.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 01:34:16 pm by wilber »
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Offline queenmandy85

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1663 on: June 17, 2021, 01:47:31 pm »
The easiest and best solution is to abolish the position of Prime Minister. Because it is not a constitutional position, no amendment is required. All that is necessary is to dismiss the Prime Minister and appoint a qualified Governor General. Don't replace the PM. Government is an administrative process and ideology and partisanship are obstacles to Peace, Order and good Government.



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Offline queenmandy85

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1664 on: June 17, 2021, 01:50:52 pm »
Quick trivia question. Who is Canada's longest reigning head of State?
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