Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 13444 times)

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Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #915 on: November 24, 2020, 11:25:51 am »
Referenda are a terrible idea.  Constant propositions by special interest groups and corporate money.

This year Uber and Lyft got a proposition passed that exempts their drivers from labour laws.   wow...  democracy at work there?   These companies funded this campaign to the tune of $90 million. 

That’s not democracy...  it’s a gross perversion of it in the form of a corporatocracy.
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Offline Montgomery

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #916 on: November 24, 2020, 11:32:44 am »
California also has direct democracy. It's been a huge burden that has made California nearly ungovernable.

Quite true of California at times. They've made some dangerous moves that have needed to be reversed. But maybe it a good thing that they tried and learned because it seems they have eliminated most of the whacko extreme rightists. Direct democracy allows stupid people to do stupid things.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #917 on: November 24, 2020, 11:35:34 am »
A referendum in Switzerland passed blocking the purchase of new fighter aircraft for their airforce.   

Careful what you wish for with these “direct democracy” votes.  Conservatives would set their hair on fire if the beatniks managed to get something like that passed here.  How many referenda would come out of Alberta and Saskatchewan promoting oil? 

Referenda are an idiotic idea. 

Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #918 on: November 24, 2020, 12:03:31 pm »
A referendum in Switzerland passed blocking the purchase of new fighter aircraft for their airforce.   

Careful what you wish for with these “direct democracy” votes.  Conservatives would set their hair on fire if the beatniks managed to get something like that passed here.  How many referenda would come out of Alberta and Saskatchewan promoting oil? 

Referenda are an idiotic idea.

Imagine the referenda demanding increased spending and lower taxes. Imagine the referenda demanding acting on climate change and cheap, plentiful gasoline. it's not workable.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #919 on: November 24, 2020, 12:30:07 pm »
Imagine the referenda demanding increased spending and lower taxes. Imagine the referenda demanding acting on climate change and cheap, plentiful gasoline. it's not workable.
Hmmm, sounds exactly like what we've wound up with anyway.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #920 on: November 24, 2020, 12:49:57 pm »
Hmmm, sounds exactly like what we've wound up with anyway.

That's because many politicians lack the courage to act, though that seems to be changing somewhat.

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #921 on: November 24, 2020, 01:07:33 pm »
California also has direct democracy. It's been a huge burden that has made California nearly ungovernable.

Tell you what. Set up something like the Citizen's Assembly to review and decide on an alternate electoral system to what we have now, then make Parliament vote on it. You will get your wish to have Parliament make the decision and we will all find out who is actually serious about electoral reform.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Montgomery

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #922 on: November 24, 2020, 01:14:17 pm »
It's as dangerous as allowing Canadians in Alberta to have a referendum on capitol punishment for all of Canada, or allowing Americans to have a country wide referendum on the right to pack concealed heat.

Given opportunities the rabid, frothing at the mouth right, just like our two (or three)  resident spammers, will destroy the world.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #923 on: November 24, 2020, 02:23:42 pm »
It's as dangerous as allowing Canadians in Alberta to have a referendum on capitol punishment for all of Canada, or allowing Americans to have a country wide referendum on the right to pack concealed heat.

Given opportunities the rabid, frothing at the mouth right, just like our two (or three)  resident spammers, will destroy the world.

Given your cluelessness, you gave 2 bad examples.  1, capital punishment is not constitutional in Canada.  2, carrying guns IS constitutional in the USA.

However, inadvertently, you bring up a good point.  How would we ever weed out the wheat from the chaff in terms of legitimate questions to ask. 

I agree with JMT, it’s unworkable and would be bad for our democracy.

Offline eyeball

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #924 on: November 24, 2020, 02:38:14 pm »
That's because many politicians lack the courage to act, though that seems to be changing somewhat.
What's that perception based on, a promise made by a lying leader?  If I'm supposed to be gracious that at least we had a promise it seems fair that you should be a little less condescending about it being broken.

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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #925 on: November 24, 2020, 03:49:11 pm »
again, notwithstanding both referendums failed to reach the necessary threshold percentage to realize a change to PR, for someone like you so steeped in the "mythology of proportional representation", the irony is off the charts in that you B.C. PR proponents would have had no objection to a fraction of B.C. voters choosing a new electoral system... one that was short on specifics and that few understood.
Should I be surprised that 57.7 percent isn't enough from someone who thinks 39% percent should get a party a majority?
Wow, the people aren't even allowed to choose the system they use to elect their governments. It doesn't get much more elitist than that.

again, notwithstanding you B.C. PRorBust proponents were seeking a solution to a "problem" that doesn't even exist in B.C., how ironic you would accept a fundamental change to the electoral system based on a measly 60% of those even bothering to participate in the respective referendums... that were, again, short on specifics and that few understood!

as has been stated here previously, government by referendum is (should be) a non-starter!

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #926 on: November 24, 2020, 04:00:51 pm »
Quite true of California at times. They've made some dangerous moves that have needed to be reversed. But maybe it a good thing that they tried and learned because it seems they have eliminated most of the whacko extreme rightists. Direct democracy allows stupid people to do stupid things.

Prop 22 shows how easily direct democracy can be subverted by those with a shitload of money and absolutely no scruples about lying to people.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #927 on: November 24, 2020, 07:42:00 pm »
Tell you what. Set up something like the Citizen's Assembly

I believe we have one, called the House of Commons.

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #928 on: November 24, 2020, 08:04:55 pm »
I believe we have one, called the House of Commons.

The House of Commons consists of partisan politicians acting in their own self interests and the aren't experts or interested in electoral reform. Get a knowledgeable  independent group to give them an option and make them decide. You don't even trust Parliament to make a decision.

Why do you want the issue of electoral reform to just disappear?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #929 on: November 24, 2020, 08:10:44 pm »
The House of Commons consists of partisan politicians acting in their own self interests and the aren't experts or interested in electoral reform. Get a knowledgeable  independent group to give them an option and make them decide. You don't even trust Parliament to make a decision.

Why do you want the issue of electoral reform to just disappear?

Because we have a functioning, stable democracy.
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