Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 13160 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #795 on: November 20, 2020, 01:42:45 pm »
I'd need to look at data for these things with other countries who have tried it.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #796 on: November 20, 2020, 01:49:53 pm »
Nothing ventured nothing gained.  If you don't want the risk then there's zero-risk wage jobs everywhere waiting for you.

Don't want to risk everything, just get a job says guy who thinks people aren't being forced into wage slavery.

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Why do you need a guaranteed income supplement if your business fails? Just go apply for a job.  You can also choose to buy into income protection insurance as a self-employed person. I also know employers can claim certain EI benefits like sickness.
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So you don't have to worry about going bankrupt and losing everything while you look for a job?

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #797 on: November 20, 2020, 01:51:01 pm »
Which would cause wage inflation, which would then cause price inflation, and then the government would have to raise the guaranteed income level to match, and then we're back at square one.

Except there's little evidence higher wages lead to higher prices.

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #798 on: November 20, 2020, 01:52:16 pm »
When collective bargaining was destroyed by the socalled 'right to work' zones, as well as other pressures from the wealthy, they should have realized that sooner or later a UBI would be needed to replace it.

The UBI doesn't need to be called as such, it can be called unemployment insurance, welfare, or social assistance. And now the jobs have been automated into extinction and the wealthy will have to be taxed so those bills can be paid to the unemployed.

The best hope for the very wealthy keeping all their money is found in the US where the people have been brainwashed into thinking it's all their money and the poor are trying to steal their money. It's not working anymore and hence we see their attempts at promoting a fascist regime.

Biden doesn't really intend on making it any better! What can be said about a country that can't even provide quality healthcare for all it's people?
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #799 on: November 20, 2020, 01:56:19 pm »
Not sure why if the supplement is universal. It's not like we never see cases of companies raising their prices when products are subsidized by government.

If we're talking about low wage **** jobs, then obviously employers would need to raise wages in order to compete with the income supplement.

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #800 on: November 20, 2020, 02:02:01 pm »
America's brand of capitalism has failed. And Canada's brand of capitalism is being threatened by that influence from south of the border.

But socially responsible capitalism can work and is working in the world's leading capitalist countries. New laws can be enacted to make it work. That's socialism within a capitalist system.

Yet still, as populations get larger and larger, it seems that China has now adopted the only system that can really work going forward in the 21st. century.

China will fine tune it, regardless of the outside interference!
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #801 on: November 20, 2020, 02:05:42 pm »
America's brand of capitalism has failed. And Canada's brand of capitalism is being threatened by that influence from south of the border.

But socially responsible capitalism can work and is working in the world's leading capitalist countries. New laws can be enacted to make it work. That's socialism within a capitalist system.

Yet still, as populations get larger and larger, it seems that China has now adopted the only system that can really work going forward in the 21st. century.

China will fine tune it, regardless of the outside interference!

fascism?
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #802 on: November 20, 2020, 02:08:21 pm »
If we're talking about low wage **** jobs, then obviously employers would need to raise wages in order to compete with the income supplement.

Not if government is going to do it for them.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #803 on: November 20, 2020, 02:15:40 pm »
Not if government is going to do it for them.

Why would anyone take a shitty job with **** wages if they could make almost as much just doing nothing?


Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #804 on: November 20, 2020, 02:20:56 pm »
Why would anyone take a shitty job with **** wages if they could make almost as much just doing nothing?

People working for minimum wage do that now though...   Lots of people could do just as well on welfare but donít. They go to work for crappy wages....   gaining work experience to better themselves, making barely enough to eat and pay rent, and, if theyíre lucky, saving some coin.   

So I donít think the argument put forward by Wilber and Graham that if you give people enough money to barely stay alive that they will just not bother working holds any weight whatsoever. 


Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #805 on: November 20, 2020, 02:22:43 pm »
Why would anyone take a shitty job with **** wages if they could make almost as much just doing nothing?

We already have too many people who won't take jobs that involve hard work for good wages. Most of the dairy farmers around here have resorted to TFW's because they can't get locals to do the work even though they are paying $20hr to start.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #806 on: November 20, 2020, 02:23:27 pm »
I'd need to look at data for these things with other countries who have tried it.

You havenít needed to look at any data so far to form an opinion that itís a terrible idea....  why start now?


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Mincome in Manitoba   Edit
A similar field experiment of the Canadian Guaranteed Annual Income (GAI), known as Mincome, took place in Dauphin, Manitoba between 1974 and 1979. According to a research into the effects of Mincome on population health, conducted by a University of Manitoba researcher Evelyn Forget in 2011, the experiment has resulted in significant reduction in hospitalization, specifically in case of mental health diagnoses.[3] Among all the people, only two key groups were found to be discouraged from working by the Mincome project Ė new mothers and teenaged boys, who, instead of entering the workforce at an early age, decided to study until grade 12, increasing the proportion of students who graduate high school.[4]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_pilots

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #807 on: November 20, 2020, 02:32:25 pm »
fascism?

Fascism? China?

No, capitalism within a communist system.

The principle is that communism has been able to provide the leadership in China that has elevated hundreds of millions of it's people up out of poverty. That fact isn't debated anymore.

Capitalism of the US sort ends in not being capable of providing for all the people. That can't be tolerable in the 21st. century unless military force can steal the resources of others to provide the necessities to a system that refuses to share the wealth.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #808 on: November 20, 2020, 02:41:03 pm »
Take a closer look at H.K. That's US style greedy capitalism trying to continue to exist within China's system of attempting to provide for all of the country's people.

The protests are even supported by the US and Britain!

H.K. is a capitalist paradise, I've been there and I've seen it and it rivaled New York. Now it just can't work within a system that demands the poor be cared for.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #809 on: November 20, 2020, 03:00:33 pm »
Take a closer look at H.K. That's US style greedy capitalism trying to continue to exist within China's system of attempting to provide for all of the country's people.

The protests are even supported by the US and Britain!

H.K. is a capitalist paradise, I've been there and I've seen it and it rivaled New York. Now it just can't work within a system that demands the poor be cared for.

The Hong Kong protest are supported by Canada.  And thatís a good thing.  **** the commies and their atrocities against their own people.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/china/report-china/