Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 13996 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #750 on: November 10, 2020, 08:15:41 pm »
If you're getting CERB, lost your job...  you're going to spend it the necessities. 

If you still have a job, you're saving a whole bunch of money not eating out and you're not getting COVID.  Maybe you spend your money on a watch, or some **** on Amazon.  But you still aren't going out, since you want to avoid COVID. 

Sorry...  I think that economist isn't dealing with a full deck if he thinks we should be encouraging people to do riskier things.

I agree. As I said, I don't know if this is much of an issue but it is something to think about when you are allocating money.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #751 on: November 10, 2020, 09:34:21 pm »
I agree. As I said, I don't know if this is much of an issue but it is something to think about when you are allocating money.

I am still of the opinion that a taxable UBI would be the best thing...   enough with the dozens of different programs and subsidies that people get.  Make it universal and taxable.

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There is no question that basic income is affordable. We could provide a guaranteed minimum income of $1,400/month to all working age adults with just a 3% GST increase. https://www.ubiworks.ca/howtopay

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #752 on: November 10, 2020, 10:04:44 pm »
I am still of the opinion that a taxable UBI would be the best thing...   enough with the dozens of different programs and subsidies that people get.  Make it universal and taxable.
I doubt that very much in the present economy. Tax revenues are in the tank and increasing rates will make it even worse.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #753 on: November 11, 2020, 06:20:17 pm »
I doubt that very much in the present economy. Tax revenues are in the tank and increasing rates will make it even worse.

I'm not saying it will be implemented tomorrow...  but I am hopeful it will be a byproduct of this virus. 3% GST increase to have a UBI (if this is the true cost) is a pretty small price to pay.  It can be brought in gradually, with all the other programs that it would replace being canceled gradually.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #754 on: November 11, 2020, 06:37:14 pm »
I'm not saying it will be implemented tomorrow...  but I am hopeful it will be a byproduct of this virus. 3% GST increase to have a UBI (if this is the true cost) is a pretty small price to pay.  It can be brought in gradually, with all the other programs that it would replace being canceled gradually.

Pre Covid, adding 3% to the GST would bring in maybe another 25 billion in revenues. If we install a UBI does that mean we get rid of EI and if so would 25  billion be enough to replace the revenues from EI premiums as well as provincial welfare payments? I guess we should be looking at it but I have my doubts.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #755 on: November 11, 2020, 07:25:24 pm »
I'm not saying it will be implemented tomorrow...  but I am hopeful it will be a byproduct of this virus. 3% GST increase to have a UBI (if this is the true cost) is a pretty small price to pay.  It can be brought in gradually, with all the other programs that it would replace being canceled gradually.

What are the limitations for claiming UBI?

Should healthy working-age able-bodied people be able to claim UBI if they're not looking for work or refusing work?  Should people who lose their job simply be able to stay on UBI indefinitely with no questions asked?
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #756 on: November 11, 2020, 07:57:43 pm »
Should healthy working-age able-bodied people be able to claim UBI if they're not looking for work or refusing work?  Should people who lose their job simply be able to stay on UBI indefinitely with no questions asked?

If not, it wouldn't be universal, would it?
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #757 on: November 11, 2020, 08:33:25 pm »
If not, it wouldn't be universal, would it?

Why would you give it to people who don't deserve it?  There has to be some kind of eligibility requirements.  It's not like you're going to give it to people visiting Canada on vacation.

We shouldn't provide income for healthy people who willfully choose not to contribute to society.  And we certainly shouldn't give them the same income as someone who is disabled or elderly.

Imagine how many lazy people would stay on CERB if it was indefinite and had no requirements.  Imagine how many college students would take a year off and just party or travel on the government dime, many even staying with their folks for free.  Great way to save money!  This isn't humanitarian at all, you'd be eroding these people psychologically by turning them into government dependents akin to children.  We need to treat people like responsible adults.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #758 on: November 11, 2020, 11:13:07 pm »
Why would you give it to people who don't deserve it? 

Itís taxed back.  Itís universal so there doesnít need to be a bureaucracy to determine when people need it...  are they qualified?  How long have they been on it?  The bureaucratic mess goes on.  With UBI, itís all handled at tax time.


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There has to be some kind of eligibility requirements.

Yes, there would be.  Resident and citizen of Canada.

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It's not like you're going to give it to people visiting Canada on vacation.

No one has EVER said it would or should.   You clearly have never read a single thing about it. 

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We shouldn't provide income for healthy people who willfully choose not to contribute to society.  And we certainly shouldn't give them the same income as someone who is disabled or elderly.

We already do...   and then we create an entire bureaucracy to manage it.  Thereís no reason it couldnít be scaled, say if you have dependents. 

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Imagine how many lazy people would stay on CERB if it was indefinite and had no requirements.  Imagine how many college students would take a year off and just party or travel on the government dime, many even staying with their folks for free.  Great way to save money!  This isn't humanitarian at all, you'd be eroding these people psychologically by turning them into government dependents akin to children.  We need to treat people like responsible adults.

Imagine all the terrible things....     ::) ::)

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #759 on: November 12, 2020, 11:24:29 am »
Why would you give it to people who don't deserve it?  There has to be some kind of eligibility requirements.  It's not like you're going to give it to people visiting Canada on vacation.

We shouldn't provide income for healthy people who willfully choose not to contribute to society.  And we certainly shouldn't give them the same income as someone who is disabled or elderly.

Imagine how many lazy people would stay on CERB if it was indefinite and had no requirements.  Imagine how many college students would take a year off and just party or travel on the government dime, many even staying with their folks for free.  Great way to save money!  This isn't humanitarian at all, you'd be eroding these people psychologically by turning them into government dependents akin to children.  We need to treat people like responsible adults.

Due to automation it's probably inevitable Gorgeous, but we still have a few years to consider it. Then it will all be in 'who' or what politicans make the decisions who is lazy, etc.

There are a lot more questions involved than what is indicated by the squad's callous spamming.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 12:23:31 pm by Montgomery »
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #760 on: November 12, 2020, 12:06:39 pm »
There are a lot more questions involved than what is indicated by the squid's callous spamming.

Every tie you post something, you look like an idiot.  Youíre posts are vapid nonsense that donít contain anything other than memes.

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #761 on: November 12, 2020, 12:22:49 pm »
Every tie you post something, you look like an idiot.  Youíre posts are vapid nonsense that donít contain anything other than memes.

That was a typo squid, it was meant to be the 'squad's callous spamming. You should fix your 'tie' typo too because it's just another attempt at a backhanded insult.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 12:24:45 pm by Montgomery »
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Omni

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #762 on: November 12, 2020, 12:32:50 pm »
That was a typo squid, it was meant to be the 'squad's callous spamming. You should fix your 'tie' typo too because it's just another attempt at a backhanded insult.

Now that's feeble even by your usual standard.

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #763 on: November 12, 2020, 12:44:00 pm »
Now that's feeble even by your usual standard.

You're being very unfair Omni, about an honest mistake I made and then apologized for it and fixed it. Are you thinking that I'm suggesting you and squid and wilbur are spammers?

Let it go Omni before it makes you crazy.

And now back on topic please!! Why do you and the spammers have to always take Gorgeous's ideas to the extreme? He's a very sensible middle of the roader who understands politics a lot better than the ________ who argue his rational ideas. Of course a basic income would have to be administered fairly and without leftist bias!
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #764 on: November 12, 2020, 02:03:30 pm »
Due to automation it's probably inevitable Gorgeous, but we still have a few years to consider it. Then it will all be in 'who' or what politicans make the decisions who is lazy, etc.

There are a lot more questions involved than what is indicated by the squad's callous spamming.
Automation is different.  If a person is able to work but genuinely can't find a job then I have no problem giving them benefits.  If there are jobs available but a healthy person refuses to work, you and I should not be paying for their income.  It's ridiculous.  I would have no problem paying for them to be re-trained, and paying for their income while they are retraining.

The kinds of people who propose these programs are the same types of people who allow their unemployed adult children to live for free in their basement while mom cooks them dinner and does their laundry.  They think they're being kind, but it isn't good for anyone.  We should not be incentivizing people to become dependents of the state.

We have quite a few adult infants on this forum, prone to tantrums/name-calling as well, so their feelings on this are no surprise to me.  They prefer themselves and other to remain infants.  A wonderful way to run a country.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 02:09:41 pm by Gorgeous Graham »
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.