Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 13300 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #375 on: May 14, 2020, 09:15:59 pm »
If you're a person, sure. If you're a country - maybe, maybe not.

Like I said, where were you in 93?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #376 on: May 14, 2020, 09:22:15 pm »

GST isn't an entity of its own, for government to collect it, people need to have money to buy stuff.
If GDP is contracting, what are you going to tax?

Well obviously you're not going to raise taxes now.  But maybe when the recession ends they may have to.  But voters dislike taxes more than they dislike debt because, well, they like having their cake and eating it too.  People are generally irresponsible shmucks.  So the government will have pressure not to raise taxes.  Meanwhile they get to play the hero by spending other people's money, which will benefit them in the inevitable election.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #377 on: May 14, 2020, 09:43:00 pm »
I provided you with the information already.

Where's the link?  Where's the evidence?

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Canada will have to roll over a large part of it's debt this year. Borrowing costs for most of Canada's debt will continue to fall for the foreseeable future.

That's always the case during a global recession.  The interest rates will rise inevitably, and if they go up too much we're going to get smacked, just like Giroux said.  You're talking about the next couple of years.  I'm talking about decades because that's how long we'll have this debt in the very best case scenario.

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You guys act like we're at the end of the line or something.  We're one of the few AAA rated countries, and we're expected to keep that rating through this.  The federal finances will survive, even if things become a bit tighter at some point in the future.

And you act like nothing is wrong at all, everything is fine.  You do realize this country is on a trend of borrowing every recession and not paying it back right?  It's not sustainable in the longterm.  Something needs to change.  Sure the country will survive, but the gravy train is going to end at some point.  We're burning a candle at both ends.  Everything I've said the last few years about our budget has come to pass.

And our energy sector is being smashed to bits, which is what got us through the last recession.  Investors are fleeing this country at unprecedented rates.  Our economic growth in the short and medium term even after this recession is over is looking like the sh!ts, which is why they're leaving.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #378 on: May 14, 2020, 09:46:50 pm »
With this COVID money being spent, where's all the people now who said Harper was financially irresponsible because he drove up Canada's debt so much?  If that's true, then Trudeau is even more irresponsible, right?  Hypocrites.

Of course, I don't think either is true.  You spend during a recession to stimulate the economy, and you pay it back when the economy recovers so you can be ready for the next recession.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #379 on: May 15, 2020, 08:32:27 am »
Like I said, where were you in 93?

We weren't actually anywhere near bankruptcy in 2003.  We were also running massive deficits in a vacuum.

Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #380 on: May 15, 2020, 08:33:58 am »
Where's the link?  Where's the evidence?

Canada's 30 year bond rate is 1.06%. Almost all of our old debt is about to roll over, and the new debt will be accrued at the 1.06% rate.  Debt servicing costs are going to fall, even with a trillion dollars of new debt.

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #381 on: May 15, 2020, 08:48:56 am »
We weren't actually anywhere near bankruptcy in 2003.  We were also running massive deficits in a vacuum.

Investors didn’t want our bonds which forced Chrétien and Martin to drastically cut federal spending, which in turn put pressure on provincial budgets forcing their debt to increase. The BoC has already started quantitive easing which is basically printing money and Canada will probably lose its AAA credit rating. That means it will pay higher interest rates. You seem to think there is some kind of free ride here.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #382 on: May 15, 2020, 09:05:26 am »
Investors didn’t want our bonds which forced Chrétien and Martin to drastically cut federal spending, which in turn put pressure on provincial budgets forcing their debt to increase. The BoC has already started quantitive easing which is basically printing money and Canada will probably lose its AAA credit rating.

Where's your info for that? Kevin Page has already come out and said that's unlikely.

guest78

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #383 on: May 15, 2020, 09:31:46 am »
Canada's 30 year bond rate is 1.06%. Almost all of our old debt is about to roll over, and the new debt will be accrued at the 1.06% rate.  Debt servicing costs are going to fall, even with a trillion dollars of new debt.
Low interest rates won't last forever.  It's not a good idea to run policy with the expectations that they will.
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guest78

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #384 on: May 15, 2020, 09:35:41 am »
Where's your info for that? Kevin Page has already come out and said that's unlikely.
Our debt to GDP ratio was in the danger zone.  Chretien and Martin were responsible leaders, unlike our current government.  They cut spending by 20-30% across the board.  It led to unprecedented surpluses and economic growth and debt reduction.  We were the envy of the G7.  That's all for nothing now, as our GDP to debt ratios have significantly increased, and all the debt we reduced from the late 90s to 2008 has been added back on, and then some.  Because we have a PM that wants to play Santa Claus.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #385 on: May 15, 2020, 09:53:24 am »
Our debt to GDP ratio was in the danger zone.  Chretien and Martin were responsible leaders, unlike our current government.  They cut spending by 20-30% across the board.  It led to unprecedented surpluses and economic growth and debt reduction.  We were the envy of the G7.  That's all for nothing now, as our GDP to debt ratios have significantly increased, and all the debt we reduced from the late 90s to 2008 has been added back on, and then some.  Because we have a PM that wants to play Santa Claus.

Actually our debt to gdp ratio was the highest it's ever been under Harper. It has reduced since JT took office. Of course you may have heard there is a pandemic occuring which will certainly have an effect. I suppose you'll try and blame Covid on Trudeau somehow.

guest78

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #386 on: May 15, 2020, 10:47:37 am »
Actually our debt to gdp ratio was the highest it's ever been under Harper. It has reduced since JT took office. Of course you may have heard there is a pandemic occuring which will certainly have an effect. I suppose you'll try and blame Covid on Trudeau somehow.
Complete and utter nonsense.  Again, you don't know what you're talking about.  It wasn't reduced at all since JT took office, he's ran massive deficits every year!  Many of Harper's years were balanced budgets or surpluses.  You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.  Sheesh.  You lie like Trump.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #387 on: May 15, 2020, 10:53:11 am »
Our debt to GDP ratio was in the danger zone.

Not even close. Japan's debt to GDP ratio has now passed 250%.  we are the 10th largest economy in the world with far more economic power than in 1993.

Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #388 on: May 15, 2020, 10:54:25 am »
Low interest rates won't last forever.  It's not a good idea to run policy with the expectations that they will.

No one is proposing doing that. Conservatives have a new game where they act like the pandemic isn't a thing.  They were also the ones saying that the aid packaged was too small and too slow in March.

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #389 on: May 15, 2020, 10:59:48 am »
Where's your info for that? Kevin Page has already come out and said that's unlikely.

BNN has had a couple articles on it.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/soaring-canadian-deficit-may-jeopardize-aaa-rating-macquarie-1.1436065

« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 11:01:39 am by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC