Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 13996 times)

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Online Mr. Perfect

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #360 on: May 13, 2020, 01:55:22 pm »

If they had used a system with fraud prevention, most people wouldn't have money even yet.

Exactly this.  The pandemic is an emergency.  Unfortunately, there isnít the time to do it exactly correctly or to determine means, or fraud, or whatever else prior to cheques going out.

Which is exactly the reason why we need a Basic Monthly Income for all citizens of the country.  Everyone would get it, and those that donít need it would be paying it back through income taxes.  There woundít be all this craziness about who gets what cheque and so many different programs geared towards different people. 
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #361 on: May 13, 2020, 02:04:35 pm »
Okay, but a lot of people who get OAS and especially GIS aren't you.



I agree, payments should be based on taxable income. If they are still working, they should be able to collect CERB if their income has been interrupted.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #362 on: May 13, 2020, 06:31:30 pm »
I agree, payments should be based on taxable income. If they are still working, they should be able to collect CERB if their income has been interrupted.

This is about food inflation.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #363 on: May 13, 2020, 08:05:43 pm »
Scratch that - it will cost absolutely nothing:

"We anticipate that debt charges will not go up, which is surprising and counterintuitive," Giroux said. "Interest rates are so much lower than what we anticipated them to be just two or three months ago. It doesn't cost that much to finance that growing debt.

"Is the government in a worrisome position right now? The answer is no."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-deficit-higher-than-252-billion-1.5566768

Of course it will cost money, a ton of money.  Interest rates are extremely low now.  But likely after 2-3 years rates will start rising.  We're not going to be paying this 1 trillion back any time soon, if ever.  You don't borrow a trillion dollars and not pay it back for decades if at all without paying a crapload of interest, and then interest on the interest which compounds.

Also, see my signature.  I'm usually right about this stuff.  From your link immediately following your quote that you conveniently left out:

"He [Giroux] said the debt load could become "unbearable" in the event of a sizeable spike in interest rates and added the prospect of such an increase is "concerning"."

See.

If the deficit is 1 trillion we'll be more than doubling our federal debt.  We're screwed.  Every day we're in lockdown we're loading more debt onto the heap.  Not much we can do though.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #364 on: May 13, 2020, 08:30:14 pm »
Yes we need government to intervene but JT is just shovelling money out the door as fast as he can and it isn't sustainable. Today it was 2.5 billion for seniors. If you are receiving old age security, you will get a check. It takes a combined income of over $120K before they start clawing back OAS, give it to seniors who really need it.

I can't fault the government for spending all this money, people need it, and so does our economy.  A lot of money is being saved rather than spent though, which is worrisome for the economy at the moment but in the longrun will be ok, it will eventually spent.

We have to be careful to watch what's being spent though, obviously.  I have a friend who got laid off and went on the CERB benefit.  Financially this was doable for them.  But then their employer got the wage subsidy thing and my friend was re-hired but is still sitting at home doing nothing and getting paid 75% of their regular wages for doing nothing, paid for by the government.  Maybe some people need that extra money though, for mortgages and whatnot, I dunno.  This friend doesn't have kids either.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #365 on: May 13, 2020, 08:32:21 pm »
If they had used a system with fraud prevention, most people wouldn't have money even yet.

True.  People started to get their money in a couple of days.  They didn't check anything.  It's an emergency, i'm fine with it as long as any money for people who don't qualify eventually pay it back with interest.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #366 on: May 13, 2020, 08:38:33 pm »
Of course it will cost money, a ton of money.  Interest rates are extremely low now.  But likely after 2-3 years.....

...it won't matter, because the one time spending will have been locked in for decades.  If we kept having $100B deficits, yeah, we'd have a problem. These 1-2 large deficits isn't an issue with current interest rates.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #367 on: May 13, 2020, 08:40:30 pm »
...it won't matter, because the one time spending will have been locked in for decades.  If we kept having $100B deficits, yeah, we'd have a problem. These 1-2 large deficits isn't an issue with current interest rates.

Link?
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Online Mr. Perfect

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #368 on: May 13, 2020, 08:47:54 pm »
Link?

What if we have to raise the GST by 5 points to pay this off?  So what???   We're a rich country with a relatively low tax rate.  It may be the case that our standard of living is going to go down slightly...   People will have to take the bus more...  maybe only have one car per couple!!  Whoah!  How terrible will that be?? 

Every point of GST = $7billion to the treasury.  That might be a bit less if people spend less, or the gov't lowers taxes on lower income Canadians to compensate for the GST hike.  But, we could make up these emergency measures in a few short years if we actually made people pay a bit more tax.

Offline Omni

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #369 on: May 13, 2020, 08:51:13 pm »
What if we have to raise the GST by 5 points to pay this off?  So what???   We're a rich country with a relatively low tax rate.  It may be the case that our standard of living is going to go down slightly...   People will have to take the bus more...  maybe only have one car per couple!!  Whoah!  How terrible will that be?? 

Every point of GST = $7billion to the treasury.  That might be a bit less if people spend less, or the gov't lowers taxes on lower income Canadians to compensate for the GST hike.  But, we could make up these emergency measures in a few short years if we actually made people pay a bit more tax.

As the saying goes, "we're all in this together" I'll pay a bit more for gas and such if it gets us through this.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #370 on: May 13, 2020, 08:59:27 pm »
What if we have to raise the GST by 5 points to pay this off?  So what???   We're a rich country with a relatively low tax rate.  It may be the case that our standard of living is going to go down slightly...   People will have to take the bus more...  maybe only have one car per couple!!  Whoah!  How terrible will that be?? 

Every point of GST = $7billion to the treasury.  That might be a bit less if people spend less, or the gov't lowers taxes on lower income Canadians to compensate for the GST hike.  But, we could make up these emergency measures in a few short years if we actually made people pay a bit more tax.

We might have to something like that.  Raising taxes somehow.  It would be the responsible thing to do.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #371 on: May 13, 2020, 10:00:18 pm »
What if we have to raise the GST by 5 points to pay this off?  So what???   We're a rich country with a relatively low tax rate.  It may be the case that our standard of living is going to go down slightly...   People will have to take the bus more...  maybe only have one car per couple!!  Whoah!  How terrible will that be?? 

Every point of GST = $7billion to the treasury.  That might be a bit less if people spend less, or the gov't lowers taxes on lower income Canadians to compensate for the GST hike.  But, we could make up these emergency measures in a few short years if we actually made people pay a bit more tax.


GST isn't an entity of its own, for government to collect it, people need to have money to buy stuff.
If GDP is contracting, what are you going to tax?
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #372 on: May 13, 2020, 10:05:18 pm »
Link?

I provided you with the information already.   Canada will have to roll over a large part of it's debt this year. Borrowing costs for most of Canada's debt will continue to fall for the foreseeable future.

You guys act like we're at the end of the line or something.  We're one of the few AAA rated countries, and we're expected to keep that rating through this.  The federal finances will survive, even if things become a bit tighter at some point in the future.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 10:07:14 pm by John Mark Taylor »

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #373 on: May 13, 2020, 10:08:12 pm »
I provided you with the information already.   Canada will have to roll over a large part of it's debt this year. Borrowing costs for most of Canada's debt will continue to fall for the foreseeable future.
The operative words are "roll over". If all you do is continually acquire debt and roll it over, eventually it will come back to bite you.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #374 on: May 14, 2020, 09:01:04 pm »
The operative words are "roll over". If all you do is continually acquire debt and roll it over, eventually it will come back to bite you.

If you're a person, sure. If you're a country - maybe, maybe not.