Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 13300 times)

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Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #300 on: April 09, 2020, 07:41:19 pm »
Does it? Where is the government's money going to come from with revenues in the tank? Who will lend it money if people have no money to lend?

The govít wonít get money while itís like this.  No one has said otherwise.  Stop creating straw-men to argue against. 

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #301 on: April 09, 2020, 07:47:07 pm »
The govít wonít get money while itís like this.  No one has said otherwise.  Stop creating straw-men to argue against.

What straw man? Governments need revenues to pay bills and convince lenders they are worth the risk. Governments do not create wealth, they just redistribute it. I'm not anti government but would like you guys to explain why we need more government.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #302 on: April 09, 2020, 07:49:53 pm »
What straw man? Governments need revenues to pay bills and convince lenders they are worth the risk. Governments do not create wealth, they just redistribute it. I'm not anti government but would like you guys to explain why we need more government.

Governments DO have revenues...   we were shorting ourselves by not taxing enough.  The fact that the crisis has dried up revenues is obvious and foreseeable.  And no one has said otherwise.  You are arguing as if someone has said otherwise.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #303 on: April 09, 2020, 08:02:52 pm »
As someone benefiting immensely from this (I've probably made about 30K profit at work this week alone) I can tell you that we're still far too one sided.  We need more government in our lives.  This crisis proves it.

But that's too vague.  It all depends on the exact nature of what the "more government" is.  Better government in place to deal with pandemic emergencies?  Ok sounds good.  More research into diseases?  Ok sounds good.  But squid wants to use this crisis as an excuse to nationalize key sectors of the economy.

This crisis also proves that everyone should have a month or 2 of income in savings in case some emergency likes this happens so they can pay for food and bills if they lose all income.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #304 on: April 09, 2020, 08:09:44 pm »
Governments DO have revenues...   we were shorting ourselves by not taxing enough.  The fact that the crisis has dried up revenues is obvious and foreseeable.  And no one has said otherwise.  You are arguing as if someone has said otherwise.

Revenues from what? Have you seen the latest unemployment figures? You are going to get the economy back on track by taxing fewer people and businesses even more? I don't know where this is going to end other than the national debt could easily double in the next few years and we were already borrowing to pay interest on what we already owed. It needs to be done but the result isn't going to be pretty and we may never dig our way out of the hole to where we were when this began. They're estimating a 170 billion deficit this year, that's a 25% increase in the debt in one year.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #305 on: April 09, 2020, 08:17:56 pm »
I got an interesting email from our financial advisor yesterday. They advised selling some shares we have in a US investment bank and putting it into gold shares. Gold has never been a part of their model portfolio in the past so this is a major change for them.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #306 on: April 09, 2020, 08:19:00 pm »
Revenues from what? Have you seen the latest unemployment figures? You are going to get the economy back on track by taxing fewer people and businesses even more? I don't know where this is going to end other than the national debt could easily double in the next few years and we were already borrowing to pay interest on what we already owed. It needs to be done but the result isn't going to be pretty and we may never dig our way out of the hole to where we were when this began. They're estimating a 170 billion deficit this year, that's a 25% increase in the debt in one year.

Jesus man....   did I not just say in the post you responded to that no one is saying that revenues havenít gone off a cliff due to the crisis...????

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #307 on: April 09, 2020, 08:19:48 pm »
Jesus man....   did I not just say in the post you responded to that no one is saying that revenues havenít gone off a cliff due to the crisis...????

So why do we need more government?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #308 on: April 09, 2020, 08:38:02 pm »
But that's too vague.  It all depends on the exact nature of what the "more government" is.  Better government in place to deal with pandemic emergencies?  Ok sounds good.  More research into diseases?  Ok sounds good.  But squid wants to use this crisis as an excuse to nationalize key sectors of the economy.

This crisis also proves that everyone should have a month or 2 of income in savings in case some emergency likes this happens so they can pay for food and bills if they lose all income.

I'm talking about taxing so that we can have the society most Canadians seem to want. Better funded health with pharma-care et al, an already established emergency benefit system, etc, etc. 
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #309 on: April 09, 2020, 08:56:43 pm »
I'm talking about taxing so that we can have the society most Canadians seem to want. Better funded health with pharma-care et al, an already established emergency benefit system, etc, etc.

Even if you were taxing for all that stuff before this happened, you can't do it now. The only source is borrowed money because the tax revenues have disappeared and so has the means to impose them.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #310 on: April 09, 2020, 09:02:53 pm »
Well squid, where is the money going to come from, taxing millions of unemployed and bankrupt businesses?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #311 on: April 09, 2020, 10:02:17 pm »
I'm talking about taxing so that we can have the society most Canadians seem to want. Better funded health with pharma-care et al, an already established emergency benefit system, etc, etc.

My province definitely needs more healthcare funding, our system is a joke.  My provincial government has also been incompetent the last 20 years, which is sad.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #312 on: April 09, 2020, 10:52:54 pm »
Trudea and Morneau are trying desperately to keep things going and I commend their efforts, but I think they've been way too generous with businesses.

They've expanded the 75% subsidy (to a max 58K salary) so far that pretty much every CCPC can get it whether or not they actually need it. 

They've asked *really nicely* to please hire back laid off employees, but the funds will go to any company that can show a loss within their criteria, even if they haven't laid off anyone. 

But but but... now they won't have to.   ::)

It's pretty circular logic to me.  Instead of giving it to companies 'in case' they need it, I think the money would be hella lot better spent subsidizing people who actually lose their jobs at a 75-80% rate instead of 55% EI. 

If the job losses are short term, they employees can come back.  If they're long term losses, the company will need regrouping at which time down the road, the government can spend the money stimulating businesses to hire people back and/or start new businesses.

Too many companies are going to get a jackpot for no reason while someone who lost their 100K/year job is going to be getting 2k/month.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Liberals are Conservatives who go to gay parades.  I'm not impressed.


Offline the_squid

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #313 on: April 11, 2020, 01:53:04 am »
Wage subsidies were the wrong way to go...   greedy businesses are now cutting wages.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/federal-wage-subsidy-pay-cuts_ca_5e90b492c5b68ee900d169f1?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

The government should have just stuck with better/quicker EI.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #314 on: April 11, 2020, 12:22:52 pm »
Governments DO have revenues...   we were shorting ourselves by not taxing enough.  The fact that the crisis has dried up revenues is obvious and foreseeable.  And no one has said otherwise.  You are arguing as if someone has said otherwise.

Their revenues come from the economy. The economy is in the tank so what or who are you going to tax. You can't get blood out of a stone remember.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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