Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 14174 times)

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Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #285 on: April 08, 2020, 01:23:45 am »
How so?

Have you not noticed that virtually every business in the country has shut down except for the ones that the government deems “essential”?   

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Virtually all necessities are still available and supply chains have been surprisingly resilient.  Grocery stores, gas stations, restaurants, news media etc are still functioning.

Because gov’t deems them essential. 

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Government provides a safety net when things hit the sh!tter.

So you’re a socialist who pretends to be a free market capitalist when it suits you.


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I'm thankful they can help the people who need it now, and have helped stabilize markets a bit.

Yeah...  no sh!t... the social safety net.

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In what way specifically?

Government needs to nationalize industries like all healthcare, research into pharmaceuticals, and energy.    Alberta’s private electric companies are a failure compared to BC’s crown corp for hydro-electric.   

Commercial land ownership should fall to the provinces, so in the event of another disaster they can forgive rents. 

Universities and private industry needs to be forced to research bio-tech to alleviate pandemics.   

The manufacture of personal safety devices needs to be nationalized so the Americans can’t hold us hostage.  Drug patents need to be curtailed. 

The pandemic response was a guaranteed income for everyone.  There needs to be a national Guaranteed Monthly Income all the time so that when a disaster occurs it can simply be scaled up instead of having to re-invent ways to pay people, which we did anyway.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 01:26:21 am by the_squid »
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #286 on: April 08, 2020, 12:04:39 pm »
Have you not noticed that virtually every business in the country has shut down except for the ones that the government deems “essential”?   

Because gov’t deems them essential.

So government deserves a pat on the back for feeding humanity because they didn't force grocery stores to all close?

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So you’re a socialist who pretends to be a free market capitalist when it suits you.

I'm not nor have I ever been a free-market capitalist.  But I am a capitalist, and I believe in a social safety net too.  That's what we have now, it's been working.

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Government needs to nationalize industries like all healthcare, research into pharmaceuticals, and energy.

Why?

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Alberta’s private electric companies are a failure compared to BC’s crown corp for hydro-electric.

Go look at what the Ontario government has done to their hydro system the last 20 years.  I really don't care if it's private or public as long as it's run well and it's affordable.

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Commercial land ownership should fall to the provinces, so in the event of another disaster they can forgive rents. 

The provinces are already broke, I don't see how they're going to be able to afford to buy up all commercial land.  Then they have to administer it.

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Universities and private industry needs to be forced to research bio-tech to alleviate pandemics.   

There's plenty of motivation for private companies to research biotech because any company that finds a vaccine for COVID will be ridiculously wealthy.  But we also should have government research into diseases too, which we have.

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The manufacture of personal safety devices needs to be nationalized so the Americans can’t hold us hostage.  Drug patents need to be curtailed.

We do need some way to ensure that Canada is able to manufacture such equipment in an emergency.  Many Canadian companies have volunteered to produce them for us.  We also need to create stockpiles so this doesn't happen again.

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The pandemic response was a guaranteed income for everyone.  There needs to be a national Guaranteed Monthly Income all the time so that when a disaster occurs it can simply be scaled up instead of having to re-invent ways to pay people, which we did anyway.

Maybe.  On the other hand we basically scaled up the EI program and so far so good.  Masses of people haven't been going homeless or starving.  I guess we'll see what comes out of this.  I don't think we need to re-invent the economy and nationalize entire industries because of a once-in-a-century emergency.  Maybe we just need to improve our emergency responses and infrastructure.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #287 on: April 08, 2020, 06:50:10 pm »
I think that went way over your head. 
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #288 on: April 08, 2020, 08:20:04 pm »
It took 2 weeks for the capitalist system that we live within to completely break down and be useless to nearly all of us.  Groceries might be the only exception.

...

Have you not noticed that virtually every business in the country has shut down except for the ones that the government deems “essential”?   

So to summarize your argument: capitalism is a failure, and the evidence is that all the businesses that the government forced to shut down are now shut down?

...

...

I can only imagine that sounded better in your head.

 -k
Masked for your safety.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #289 on: April 08, 2020, 08:26:12 pm »
I think that went way over your head.

That's not an argument.  Tell me why it went over my head.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #290 on: April 08, 2020, 08:30:04 pm »
That's not an argument.  Tell me why it went over my head.

He probably hasn't got enough time to waste to do that.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #291 on: April 08, 2020, 08:45:56 pm »
He probably hasn't got enough time to waste to do that.

Why do you hate me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O8xCCS0Aac
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Offline Omni

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #292 on: April 08, 2020, 09:14:05 pm »

Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #293 on: April 08, 2020, 09:20:42 pm »
...

So to summarize your argument: capitalism is a failure, and the evidence is that all the businesses that the government forced to shut down are now shut down?

...

...

I can only imagine that sounded better in your head.

 -k

Fair enough...  I may not have explained it as well as I could have... 

What is keeping businesses afloat?  Money from gov’t.  What’s keeping people from losing everything?  Government programs, money from government, forgiveness of hydro bills.

You think this is the free market at its best?

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Offline kimmy

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #294 on: April 08, 2020, 09:44:27 pm »
Fair enough...  I may not have explained it as well as I could have... 

What is keeping businesses afloat?  Money from gov’t.  What’s keeping people from losing everything?  Government programs, money from government, forgiveness of hydro bills.

You think this is the free market at its best?

I don't think anybody here is advocating for a purely laissez-faire dog-eat-dog let 'em die system. It seems like you're jousting with a straw man.

But yes, our government is going to be providing a lot of people and businesses with significant help for the next several years.

And the main reason our government is able to provide such substantial aid right now is that our very successful capitalist economy has provided our country with the financial capability to do so.

People are willing to lend our government money because they're confident that it'll be paid back.  Our government's ability to borrow represents confidence in our economic system. In short, our government's ability to provide aid during this crisis is not evidence that capitalism has failed, it is proof that capitalism has worked well for us.

 -k
Masked for your safety.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #295 on: April 08, 2020, 10:06:55 pm »
I don't, otherwise I wouldn't reply/quote.

You love me?
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Offline Omni

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #296 on: April 08, 2020, 10:13:27 pm »
You love me?

I'm a fan of humanity. Don't push your luck.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #297 on: April 08, 2020, 10:14:02 pm »
I don't think anybody here is advocating for a purely laissez-faire dog-eat-dog let 'em die system. It seems like you're jousting with a straw man.

But yes, our government is going to be providing a lot of people and businesses with significant help for the next several years.

And the main reason our government is able to provide such substantial aid right now is that our very successful capitalist economy has provided our country with the financial capability to do so.

People are willing to lend our government money because they're confident that it'll be paid back.  Our government's ability to borrow represents confidence in our economic system. In short, our government's ability to provide aid during this crisis is not evidence that capitalism has failed, it is proof that capitalism has worked well for us.

 -k

Exactly.  Capitalism and government work together.  You can't have too much of either or sh!t hits the fan.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #298 on: April 09, 2020, 07:21:36 pm »
Exactly.  Capitalism and government work together.  You can't have too much of either or sh!t hits the fan.

As someone benefiting immensely from this (I've probably made about 30K profit at work this week alone) I can tell you that we're still far too one sided.  We need more government in our lives.  This crisis proves it.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #299 on: April 09, 2020, 07:33:34 pm »
As someone benefiting immensely from this (I've probably made about 30K profit at work this week alone) I can tell you that we're still far too one sided.  We need more government in our lives.  This crisis proves it.

Does it? Where is the government's money going to come from with revenues in the tank? Who will lend it money if people have no money to lend?
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