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Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 53665 times)

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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2019, 07:41:09 pm »
Quote from: wilber on December 19, 2019, 06:48:59 pm
Interest rates hit the Mulroney government much harder.

But it just goes to show how unforeseen changes can turn  borrowing into a nightmare and make  five year plans look like a bad joke.

Higher interest rates will actually be a net help as pension obligations would go down more than debt service would go up.  The IMF uses debt to GDP as the standard measure.  It’s the only meaningful measure. 
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2019, 07:53:30 pm »
Quote from: John Mark Taylor on December 19, 2019, 07:41:09 pm
Higher interest rates will actually be a net help as pension obligations would go down more than debt service would go up.  The IMF uses debt to GDP as the standard measure.  It’s the only meaningful measure.

It can change a heartbeat if we go into recession or interest rates take off. So why did debt to GDP take off when interest rates skyrocketed in the eighties?
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2019, 08:06:45 pm »
Quote from: wilber on December 19, 2019, 07:53:30 pm
It can change a heartbeat if we go into recession or interest rates take off. So why did debt to GDP take off when interest rates skyrocketed in the eighties?

Things were different then.  Our debt service costs are mostly locked in at extremely low rates.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2019, 08:11:17 pm »
Quote from: John Mark Taylor on December 19, 2019, 08:06:45 pm
Things were different then.  Our debt service costs are mostly locked in at extremely low rates.

Ya, things are always different then. Every generation has the same excuses for doing the same thing.

You do know that when times do change, that debt will have to be rolled over at whatever the rate of the day is.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2019, 08:15:38 pm »
Quote from: wilber on December 19, 2019, 08:11:17 pm
Ya, things are always different then. Every generation has the same excuses for doing the same thing.

You do know that when times do change, that debt will have to be rolled over at whatever the rate of the day is.

Since no one is talking about runaway debt, that isn’t an issue.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #65 on: December 19, 2019, 08:41:22 pm »
Quote from: John Mark Taylor on December 19, 2019, 08:15:38 pm
Since no one is talking about runaway debt, that isn’t an issue.

It isn’t runaway until it runs away. You think you are so much smarter than previous generations while you do exactly the same things, making the same excuses.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 09:13:48 pm by wilber »
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #66 on: December 19, 2019, 11:28:43 pm »
Quote from: wilber on December 19, 2019, 08:41:22 pm
It isn’t runaway until it runs away. You think you are so much smarter than previous generations while you do exactly the same things, making the same excuses.

chill member wilber, chill

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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #67 on: December 20, 2019, 12:03:56 am »
Quote from: waldo on December 19, 2019, 11:28:43 pm
chill member wilber, chill



Are those dots the equivalent of Trump’s sharpie? The just announced revisions admitted debt to GDP is going to increase.

Canada’s gross debt to GDP is the third lowest in the G7.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2019, 12:13:46 am »
Quote from: wilber on December 20, 2019, 12:03:56 am
Canada’s gross debt to GDP is the third lowest in the G7.

it seems only YOU member wilber... focuses on gross GDP, rather than net GDP. Perhaps you should give the IMF a heads-up and get them to come over to the wilberSide!  ;D
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2019, 05:20:57 am »
Difference between gross and net debt?
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2019, 07:31:18 am »
Quote from: waldo on December 20, 2019, 12:13:46 am
it seems only YOU member wilber... focuses on gross GDP, rather than net GDP. Perhaps you should give the IMF a heads-up and get them to come over to the wilberSide!  ;D

Those are IMF numbers. You and others only take into account federal debt, gross includes both federal and provincial debt and when it comes to total government debt we are not the lowest in the G7. Not only that but we are the highest in the G7 and one of the highest in the world when it comes to personal debt as a percentage of GDP.  Things are not as rosy as you would like to believe.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2019, 08:11:54 am »
Quote from: wilber on December 20, 2019, 07:31:18 am
Those are IMF numbers. You and others only take into account federal debt, gross includes both federal and provincial debt and when it comes to total government debt we are not the lowest in the G7. Not only that but we are the highest in the G7 and one of the highest in the world when it comes to personal debt as a percentage of GDP.  Things are not as rosy as you would like to believe.

Very complete picture thank you.

Your note puts debt in context of the responsibility of the premiers and all of us, really.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #72 on: December 20, 2019, 09:12:34 am »
Quote from: MH on December 20, 2019, 08:11:54 am
Very complete picture thank you.

Your note puts debt in context of the responsibility of the premiers and all of us, really.

I hope so because I see a real disconnect. Many of our so called “progressives” are telling us we are destroying our world with things like over consumption with its impact on the environment, while at the same time we can continue to borrow because it is all about debt to GDP and our economy will continue to grow forever. I fail to see how you can reconcile the two.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2019, 12:18:27 pm »
Quote from: waldo on December 19, 2019, 11:28:43 pm
chill member wilber, chill

Quote from: wilber on December 20, 2019, 07:31:18 am
Those are IMF numbers. You and others only take into account federal debt, gross includes both federal and provincial debt and when it comes to total government debt we are not the lowest in the G7. Not only that but we are the highest in the G7 and one of the highest in the world when it comes to personal debt as a percentage of GDP.  Things are not as rosy as you would like to believe.

geezaz, personal debt? How you move the goal posts!  ;D

protip: you won't wear it well if you make the waldo red-highlight within a prior posted image

Quote from: MH on December 20, 2019, 08:11:54 am
Very complete picture thank you.

Your note puts debt in context of the responsibility of the premiers and all of us, really.

protipDeux: member wilber saying so... doesn't make it so!
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #74 on: December 20, 2019, 12:39:08 pm »
Quote from: waldo on December 20, 2019, 12:18:27 pm

protipDeux: member wilber saying so... doesn't make it so!

It's sourced.  Net debt and gross debt seems like an apt term for these things.  It's not on Trudeau to account for gross debt, but upon the premiers including the Resistence (LOL) of Ford, Kenny and the other two...
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