Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 13996 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7476
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3457
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #721 on: October 27, 2020, 08:59:20 pm »
We don't lie about everything.

I deal with people all day every day. We lie about everything. People lie about money. They make promises they don't keep. They steal. They commit various levels of fraud. I see it from people in all walks of life every single day.

At the same time, people are good, and generally want to do the right thing - politicians included.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7476
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #722 on: October 27, 2020, 09:33:07 pm »
I deal with people all day every day. We lie about everything. People lie about money. They make promises they don't keep. They steal. They commit various levels of fraud. I see it from people in all walks of life every single day.

At the same time, people are good, and generally want to do the right thing - politicians included.

It's all good then.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3457
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #723 on: October 27, 2020, 09:34:03 pm »
It's all good then.

I think you're missing the point. Lying isn't to be commended, but politicians aren't special in their lies.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6353
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #724 on: October 27, 2020, 09:38:02 pm »
If you actually possess the ability to be even a little bit introspective, you'll realize that you do the same things that you slander politicians for.

I don't lie constantly to the people I represent to stay in a position of power.  As an elected federal MP it's a disservice to the country.  I would never sell my soul for that BS, thus i'll never try to run for MP for any of these parties.  Our legislature is a hierarchy, and you typically have to kiss butt while taking it in yours to get to a place of influence like cabinet, committees etc.  And if the PM is trying to intimidate you to do something unethical you either do it or he'll demote you.

Your customers are your boss, start lying to them constantly to try and make more sales and see how many don't come back.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6353
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #725 on: October 27, 2020, 09:39:37 pm »
I think you're missing the point. Lying isn't to be commended, but politicians aren't special in their lies.

I get what you're saying but we shouldn't legitimize it or ignore it.  People also go through red lights it doesn't make it right.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3457
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #726 on: October 27, 2020, 09:42:22 pm »
Your customers are your boss, start lying to them constantly to try and make more sales and see how many don't come back.

I do lie to them constantly. I make excuses, I spin, I omit. That's how customer service is done.

Offline Montgomery

  • The Box
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 724
  • Location: vancouver Island
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #727 on: October 28, 2020, 11:54:21 am »
I do lie to them constantly. I make excuses, I spin, I omit. That's how customer service is done.

Depending on one's values, lying has become permissible. T.v. advertising contains lies more often than not. Are we conditioned to excuse that or is it that we're resigned to believing there's nothing we can do about it?
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline MH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9025
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #728 on: October 28, 2020, 12:04:41 pm »
There's no way to assess the amount of lying in a culture as far as I know.

What I do know is that verification techniques help establish trust and take lying out of the mix.  While you can't eliminate lying, at a certain point it causes transactions to become dysfunctional.

Offline Montgomery

  • The Box
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 724
  • Location: vancouver Island
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #729 on: October 28, 2020, 12:13:38 pm »
There's no way to assess the amount of lying in a culture as far as I know.

What I do know is that verification techniques help establish trust and take lying out of the mix.  While you can't eliminate lying, at a certain point it causes transactions to become dysfunctional.

A good place to witness that dysfunction you are suggesting is to go to a busy mall a week before Christmas. That's our society that allows the greedy sie of capitalism to lead us around by the nose.

I think China is discovering a better way and their is going to have to be exclusive of religious superstitions. That's poison in a 21st. century society.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7476
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #730 on: October 28, 2020, 12:15:39 pm »
I think you're missing the point. Lying isn't to be commended, but politicians aren't special in their lies.

You are saying we should ignore it, which has the same effect as commending it. Why not lie if there are no consequences? Integrity is for losers.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9025
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #731 on: October 28, 2020, 12:25:04 pm »
A good place to witness that dysfunction you are suggesting is to go to a busy mall a week before Christmas. That's our society that allows the greedy sie of capitalism to lead us around by the nose.

I think China is discovering a better way and their is going to have to be exclusive of religious superstitions. That's poison in a 21st. century society.

I have been to such a mall.  I find them wonderful, especially at Christmas time. I don't think it has much to do with religion though. 

A better example of what I'm talking about, maybe, is money.  It was created to demarcate labour and facilitate exchange.

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3457
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #732 on: October 28, 2020, 12:30:29 pm »
You are saying we should ignore it, which has the same effect as commending it. Why not lie if there are no consequences? Integrity is for losers.

I'm saying that we have to be realistic in our expectations.

Offline Montgomery

  • The Box
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 724
  • Location: vancouver Island
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #733 on: October 28, 2020, 12:33:44 pm »
I have been to such a mall.  I find them wonderful, especially at Christmas time. I don't think it has much to do with religion though. 

A better example of what I'm talking about, maybe, is money.  It was created to demarcate labour and facilitate exchange.

No, religion has been laid aside to make way for consumerism running rampant.
But religion is the root cause of that corruption and a society such as China with a billion and a half people to care for, can't allow that sort of corruption. The wealth has to be spread around to that billion and a half. Just the exact opposite of that which ails the US with it's huge income inequality.

There's little doubt in my mind which system will succeed. The only way for the system that competes against China to win is with bombs and bullets.

That's not an endorsement of communism, it's an endorsement of socially responsible capitalism. Somewhat similar to our intended direction in Canada.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6353
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #734 on: October 28, 2020, 01:10:26 pm »
I'm saying that we have to be realistic in our expectations.

White lies now and then are ok.  You can expect most people to lie now and then.  Politicians lie more than the vast majority of people in professions, and they aren't white lies, they seek to deceive constantly because many they have poor ethics.  Everything they say should be taken with a grain of salt.  The vast majority are in it for themselves and for their own power-seeking first and foremost.

Many mechanics lie, but I found one that doesn't.   His rates are higher, but he saves me far more in the unnecessary work he tells me I don't need to do.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.