Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 14179 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1830 on: August 03, 2021, 12:01:21 pm »
Youíre starting to sound rather rather xenophobic.

While I agree that it should be an open and democratic process, you are talking like anyone not born in BC could never represent the province.  Thatís simply not the case.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm just pointing it out. Because a PM has complete control over the results of the process, the needs of the sitting government will always take priority over anything else. His choice will be dictated by the image the government wants to project for itself.

I'm not sure the process necessarily needs to be democratic but it does need to be open.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1831 on: August 03, 2021, 06:52:58 pm »
Not only were none of BC's five senators born in BC, only two of them were born in Canada. You would think that with almost 5 million people, a prime minister could find just one that was actually born in the province they represent.

wait now, for that Alberta "senate election" you keep pimping out... there's no requirement for candidates to have been born in Alberta! How double-standard of you - yes?

But hey, a guy from Quebec must know who is best to represent the people of BC. Right?

or a guy, Stephen Harper, from Ontario... knowing best in who should represent the people of B.C., right?



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Youíre starting to sound rather rather xenophobic... you are talking like anyone not born in BC could never represent the province.  Thatís simply not the case.

oh my, member wilber - oh my!

Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1832 on: August 03, 2021, 07:07:03 pm »
Because a PM has complete control over the results of the process, the needs of the sitting government will always take priority over anything else. His choice will be dictated by the image the government wants to project for itself.

no - again, the Advisory Board "controls", (your word choice), the "results" (as you say). In the following prior post, I outlined the group makeup of the current Senate. With the current Prime Minister, for example, what, as you say, "dictated choice projects the current governments image"? As I said, there's a relatively rich sample for you to advise on - a sample of 57 Senators that PM Trudeau has now appointed following the Advisory Board process (more than half of the current complement of Senators). C'mon member wilber, you've got real data to presumably support this statement of yours - please advise, hey!

clearly you know shyte about the Senate. Perhaps you could advise which group you claim PM Trudeau controls... particularly given he eliminated Liberal Party affiliation within the Senate - unlike the CPC Conservative Party that maintains a group of Conservative Senators that still caucus with CPC MPs. Which group below, hey member wilber - which group do you claim PM Trudeau is, as you say, "controlling"?


Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1833 on: August 03, 2021, 08:19:37 pm »
wait now, for that Alberta "senate election" you keep pimping out... there's no requirement for candidates to have been born in Alberta! How double-standard of you - yes?

or a guy, Stephen Harper, from Ontario... knowing best in who should represent the people of B.C., right?



oh my, member wilber - oh my!

An Alberta Senate election is your obsession, not mine. Harpers priorities in appointing senators would be the same as Trudeau's or any other PM. How does it get me more votes and how does it make it easier to pass legislation.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1834 on: August 03, 2021, 08:33:09 pm »
An Alberta Senate election is your obsession, not mine.

geezaz member wilber - I thought I was replying to YOUR {obsessive} posts! C'mon, don't backpedal now - continue to be loud & proud for your obsession with an elected Senate! Loud & proud!

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1835 on: August 03, 2021, 09:46:42 pm »
geezaz member wilber - I thought I was replying to YOUR {obsessive} posts! C'mon, don't backpedal now - continue to be loud & proud for your obsession with an elected Senate! Loud & proud!

The obsession with an elected Senate is all yours waldo. Accusing me of an obsession is just grasping at straws because you have no other argument.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1836 on: August 04, 2021, 03:06:35 am »
The obsession with an elected Senate is all yours waldo. Accusing me of an obsession is just grasping at straws because you have no other argument.

some 13 pages later... after you're left with nothing but conspiracy to draw upon... after you've had your so-called "arguments" punted every which way... after your hypocrisy has been repeatedly highlighted... after you've repeatedly contradicted yourself... you're the one left to make an obsession accusation - that was YOU that did so; that was YOU, as you say, grasping at straws because you have no other argument.

and through all your blathering blusterbus, you have refused to take up the repeated challenge for you to raise any concerns you might have with any of the 57 current Senators appointed via the Advisory Board process... apparently, you can't even name one of those 57 Senators (with full bios in the public domain) that you have concerns/reservations over - while you at the same time actually stated that the process was a Senate reform improvement.

for all your ad nauseum nattering on about the, "PM Controlling everything to favour his party", you also refuse to answer the repeated request for you to qualify that claim; here, as follows one of those repeated requests posted again - don't just ignore it again member wilber!

clearly you know shyte about the Senate. Perhaps you could advise which group you claim PM Trudeau controls... particularly given he eliminated Liberal Party affiliation within the Senate - unlike the CPC Conservative Party that maintains a group of Conservative Senators that still caucus with CPC MPs. Which group below, hey member wilber - which group do you claim PM Trudeau is, as you say, "controlling"?


Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1837 on: August 04, 2021, 09:20:13 am »
some 13 pages later... after you're left with nothing but conspiracy to draw upon... after you've had your so-called "arguments" punted every which way... after your hypocrisy has been repeatedly highlighted... after you've repeatedly contradicted yourself... you're the one left to make an obsession accusation - that was YOU that did so; that was YOU, as you say, grasping at straws because you have no other argument.

and through all your blathering blusterbus, you have refused to take up the repeated challenge for you to raise any concerns you might have with any of the 57 current Senators appointed via the Advisory Board process... apparently, you can't even name one of those 57 Senators (with full bios in the public domain) that you have concerns/reservations over - while you at the same time actually stated that the process was a Senate reform improvement.

for all your ad nauseum nattering on about the, "PM Controlling everything to favour his party", you also refuse to answer the repeated request for you to qualify that claim; here, as follows one of those repeated requests posted again - don't just ignore it again member wilber!

Iíve never claimed there is a conspiracy, Iíve just stated the reality. A PM has always had total control over who sits in the Senate and because the process is secret he will always choose a candidate that is the least likely to cause any problems for his party. There is nothing stopping him because the names of the candidates are secret and he canít be held accountable. If I was PM I would and you know damn well you would too.

So he eliminated Liberal party affiliation. Big deal, he didn't eliminate politcal opinions or political philosophies.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 11:51:17 am by wilber »
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1838 on: August 04, 2021, 07:33:37 pm »
I would even say that this is probably a better process than the patronage appointments of the past but it is still a secret process controlled by the PM.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1839 on: August 04, 2021, 08:11:14 pm »
I would even say that this is probably a better process than the patronage appointments of the past but it is still a secret process controlled by the PM.
Ah but according to the waldo it's a private process controlled by the PM. That said if/when it's being controlled by O'Toole or Jagmeet then its secret.

Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1840 on: August 04, 2021, 10:54:41 pm »
guys, guys, the Advisory Board presents 5 merit based nominations for appointment selection of one of those 5. I'll keep challenging you to bring forward concerns you have with any of the 57 Senators appointed via the Advisory Board process... a challenge I've put forward at least a half-dozen times now!

but hey now... here's one for you to chew on - from the bio of Senator Peter Harder; a merit based nomination from the Advisory Board:
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...and soon after served as an assistant to then-minister Flora MacDonald. He then served as chief of staff to the Rt. Hon. Joe Clark, then leader of the opposition and, subsequently, the deputy prime minister in the first government of Prime Minister Brian Mulroney.

Senator Harder served as the founding executive director of the Immigration and Refugee Board. He was first appointed as deputy minister in 1991 Ė a role he eventually would play under five different prime ministers and 12 ministers, including in the departments of immigration, public safety, industry, the treasury board and foreign affairs.

geezaz member wilber - given his close attachments to prominent Conservatives, how could PM Trudeau ever select that guy for appointment? And yes wilber, your conspiracy theme runs strong, runs deep... you clearly doubt the integrity of the Advisory Board, its process and the value of nominations presented for appointment selection. Except, apparently, you can't even be bothered to look at any of the merit aspects of any of those 57 Senators appointed by the Advisory Board process... you're too busy with your nonsensical "PM controls it all" conspiracy!

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1841 on: August 05, 2021, 09:01:53 am »
Doesnít matter waldo, it is still a secret process where the PM calls the shots. They could be saints or devils, it is still a secret process where the PM calls the shots. We can never judge how good it is because we can never know who the other candidates were and it is all a secret until you hear the new senatorís name.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1842 on: August 05, 2021, 10:17:50 am »
...it is still a secret process where the PM calls the shots... it is still a secret process where the PM calls the shots. We can never judge how good it is because we can never know who the other candidates were and it is all a secret until you hear the new senatorís name.

as I've stated previously, when all you've got is to keep nattering on about a "secret process", your conspiracy theme has you doubting the integrity of the Advisory Board process and the value/worth of its merit-based nomination candidates. You've never actually qualified your continued blathering on about the "PM calls the shots" - the PM has no say in the Advisory Board process; the PM does not select potential candidates for nomination, the PM does not review and deliberate over the potential candidates, the PM does not select nominations from the potential candidates, the PM does not present the resultant 5 nominees. All the PM does in your idiotic blustering is... select one of those 5 Advisory Board presented nominations.

you backpedalled to say all you wanted/needed was a list of those names... and I've repeatedly asked you just what you would do with that list (of 4 other names)? Since you refuse to answer the requests, I can only presume you would want to do your own "due diligence" on those names... cause, per your conspiracy, you doubt the integrity of the Advisory Board process and the value/worth of its merit-based nomination candidates. Meanwhile you project the sham Alberta process as one you're quite comfortable with even though it is rife with partisan influence. You even went so far as to say/imply you're quite fine with a dependent and partisan Senate!

Who says the Senate has to be independent and non partisan? There is nothing in the Constitution that requires it.

yes, in your repeated hypocrisy and contradictory statements, on one hand you state the Advisory Board process is an improvement... and then you tout a dependent and partisan Senate - you clearly hearken back to the days when Prime Ministers appointed bagMen, party loyalists, partisan media-types, lobbyists, donors, key fundraisers, etc..  As I said, Canada does not need a U.S. style highly partisan elected Senate... where all too often needed legislation just goes no where! That's what you're championing as you continue to beak off about, "supposed secrecy & that the PM calls all the shots"!

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1843 on: August 05, 2021, 11:32:14 am »
It is a secret process and all your blathering doesn't change that. The advisory board is a creation of the federal government and all its deliberations and recommendations are secret. They supposedly give a PM five candidates they think can do the job. Do they have a favourite? Do they recommend one in particular? Does the PM follow any such recommendation? We can never know because it is all secret. Just the fact  there are five candidates and not just one recommendation is in itself proof the PM is in control. The only thing the public gets to know is the PM's choice.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1844 on: August 05, 2021, 12:21:00 pm »
It is a secret process ... all its deliberations and recommendations are secret. They supposedly give a PM five candidates they think can do the job.

Do they have a favourite? Do they recommend one in particular? Does the PM follow any such recommendation? We can never know because it is all secret.

Just the fact  there are five candidates and not just one recommendation is in itself proof the PM is in control. The only thing the public gets to know is the PM's choice.

as I said, your conspiracy theme runs strong, runs deep! So... you want the names so YOU can do YOUR OWN deliberations... cause otherwise its a secret! LOL! Meanwhile, you've been asked a half-dozen+ times to review the names of those 57 Senators that have been appointed per the Advisory Board process and advise of any concerns you might have with them... any one of them! Apparently your nattering, blustering and blathering about secrets has you just too busy to comply with these repeated requests.