Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 13996 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1815 on: August 01, 2021, 07:20:58 pm »
Wilber, it’s called “democracy”.  /s

Well it certainly isn't democratic but even worse, it is completely secret from start to finish.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1816 on: August 01, 2021, 07:28:28 pm »
no - again, by design! The last thing Canada needs is yet another partisan chamber to stall out/end needed legislation - if you want that kind of failed "democracy", move to the U.S.!

you scored an own-goal by admitting the new Advisory Board process is an improvement! Again, you can continue to whine/complain but the Privacy Act applies - whether you like it or not! Like I said, if you're so adamant that you just have to have "the names", put in an Access To Information request... and if you don't get the return you're after, toughTitties hey!

so when will you be moving to Alberta? Surely with such venom, such conviction, such showboating/grandstanding how can you stand to live in B.C. with those 5 appointed B.C. Senators? How are you surviving!

How is the public having a voice in choosing between the candidates put forward by your committee partisan? As it is the PM gets to choose the one which is best for his party (or least worst) because no one even knows who was put forward.  The secrecy behind this process which is under complete control of the PM ensures it will remain partisan. Show me where in the privacy act that candidates for the country's upper chamber  can never be named. Why should someone have to put in an access to information request just to find out who the candidates are for a senate position. You wave the privacy act then say put in an access of information request. Which is it? You are full of it.

Your really do have an Alberta obsession. It is very unhealthy.

I have no choice but to live with those Senators. That's the point, they represent the governments that appointed them an no one else, British Columbians had no say in the matter. It's a travesty to even call them BC Senators, they are an invention of the federal government.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 07:34:46 pm by wilber »
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1817 on: August 02, 2021, 12:29:38 am »
How is the public having a voice in choosing between the candidates put forward by your committee partisan?

oh please! Look no further than the current leading Alberta candidate who has attachments to both provincial and federal Conservative parties. Ultimately if all provinces were to elect Senators, respective parties would formally engage to select, nominate and campaign for persons belonging to their respective parties... as compared to the ultimate partisan pre-Advisory Board days when Prime Ministers appointed bagMen, party loyalists, partisan media-types, lobbyists, donors, etc..  As I said, Canada does not need a U.S. style highly partisan elected Senate... where all to often needed legislation just goes no where! That's what you're championing as you continue to beak off about supposed secrecy!

again, by (Westminster) design: the HOC lower chamber represents the populace, as elected; the Senate upper chamber represents the regions, as appointed. Although still needing improvements, we presently have a relatively well working Senate... providing that so-called 'second sober thought' to review, possibly amend and pass legislation back to the House. One key aspect of this new and improved Senate reflects upon the Advisory Board process nominations that brought forward 57 new Senators since 2016 - and PM Trudeau still has 10 vacancies yet to fill!

As it is the PM gets to choose the one which is best for his party (or least worst) because no one even knows who was put forward. The secrecy behind this process which is under complete control of the PM ensures it will remain partisan.

again, you stated the Advisory Board process is an improvement. Did you even bother to look at a report the Advisory Board puts forward... I linked you to 3 sample reports. I expect you simply ignored them so you can continue to bleat on about supposed secrecy! Again, the Privacy Act precludes naming persons who applied, who were reviewed, detailing the related deliberations therein, naming selected candidates put forward for appointment consideration, etc.. Again, your continued nattering on about secrecy is nothing more than you challenging the integrity of the Advisory Board and the supporting PCO. As I said, your fallacious conspiracy runs strong, runs deep!

Your really do have an Alberta obsession. It is very unhealthy.

sure Dr. wilber, sure! But ya, says you, a very healthy uber-Conservative fanboy!
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1818 on: August 02, 2021, 09:21:48 am »
waldo, I am merely suggesting the province being able to select a senator from the list provided by your precious advisory board but they aren’t allowed to do that. They aren’t even allowed to know who the candidates were. Suggesting that senators somehow represent provinces is laughable, their names shouldn’t even be attached to a province


This is about a PM having complete control of a process and nothing more yet you continue to babble on about partisanship and Alberta. This process just ensures that the only person able to exert partisanship into the process is the prime minister and that is obviously just fine by waldo.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1819 on: August 02, 2021, 12:47:36 pm »
your premise is false - it presumes that the Advisory Board, an independent and non-partisan body, is nominating partisans rather than the merit-based nominees it provides to a Prime Minister. In any case, accepting to your false premise, I've corrected your post - you're welcome!

This process just ensures that the only person able to exert partisanship into the process is the prime minister and that is obviously just fine by waldo... and all provinces not named Alberta!

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1820 on: August 02, 2021, 12:58:00 pm »
your premise is false - it presumes that the Advisory Board, an independent and non-partisan body, is nominating partisans rather than the merit-based nominees it provides to a Prime Minister. In any case, accepting to your false premise, I've corrected your post - you're welcome!


Says who, the government? They are all federal appointees, including the so called provincial members. It may very well be a better system but we can never know because it is totally secret. The only reason it is secret is because the federal government wants it that way.

I don't think most provinces really care about the Senate, they know it for what it is, a totally federal creation.

The lipstick may be Couture but it is still a pig.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1821 on: August 02, 2021, 01:49:19 pm »
I am merely suggesting the province being able to select a senator from the list provided by your precious advisory board but they aren’t allowed to do that.

oh my - member wilber channelling PM Harper! Of course your want/ask (as Harper found out) would require a Constitutional amendment; one that follows the general amending formula: that the change would need to be approved by 1) the federal Parliament, 2) the Senate, and 3) a minimum number of provincial legislatures... such that at least seven provinces approving the change must represent at least 50% of Canada's population.

Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1822 on: August 02, 2021, 01:55:04 pm »
...it is secret is because the federal government wants it that way.

no - the Advisory Board process is quite transparent... save for Privacy Act associations to deliberations undertaken in reviewing the unnamed persons being evaluated, then selected for nomination. Clearly you're afraid to actually read one of the Advisory Board sample reports I linked to. But yes, please continue your conspiracy ravings - nothing makes you look quite as foolish as this!

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1823 on: August 02, 2021, 02:21:03 pm »
no - the Advisory Board process is quite transparent... save for Privacy Act associations to deliberations undertaken in reviewing the unnamed persons being evaluated, then selected for nomination. Clearly you're afraid to actually read one of the Advisory Board sample reports I linked to. But yes, please continue your conspiracy ravings - nothing makes you look quite as foolish as this!

Bullshit. There is nothing transparent about the advisory process. Once the candidates have been selected their is no reason their names can't be released.

Everything in those reports is "Persuant to our Terms of Reference", in the first sentence, which were given to the by the government. The same government who appointed them in the first place.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1824 on: August 02, 2021, 02:28:33 pm »
Bullshit. There is nothing transparent about the advisory process. Once the candidates have been selected their is no reason {waldo: other than the Privacy Act} their names can't be released.

no - you're misinformed! Again, the process is quite transparent... save for Privacy Act associations to deliberations undertaken in reviewing the unnamed persons being evaluated, then selected for nomination.

good luck in your pursuit of that required Constitutional Amendment; again, one that follows the general amending formula: that the change would need to be approved by 1) the federal Parliament, 2) the Senate, and 3) a minimum number of provincial legislatures... such that at least seven provinces approving the change must represent at least 50% of Canada's population.


Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1825 on: August 02, 2021, 02:32:24 pm »
no - you're misinformed! Again, the process is quite transparent... save for Privacy Act associations to deliberations undertaken in reviewing the unnamed persons being evaluated, then selected for nomination.

good luck in your pursuit of that required Constitutional Amendment; again, one that follows the general amending formula: that the change would need to be approved by 1) the federal Parliament, 2) the Senate, and 3) a minimum number of provincial legislatures... such that at least seven provinces approving the change must represent at least 50% of Canada's population.



Are you that effing thick?

Certainly their information is private when they are being reviewed by the committee. There is no reason their names can't be released after they have been selected.

Anyway saying these people somehow represent regions is an absolute fairy tale. Regions and provinces have zero say in the process or the selections.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 02:34:32 pm by wilber »
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1826 on: August 03, 2021, 09:32:25 am »
Anyway saying these people somehow represent regions is an absolute fairy tale.

so... again, the only 'residency' requirement to being a candidate in the so-called Alberta "senate election", is to have lived in Alberta for the 6 months prior to the "election" - 6 months is all it takes to "represent Alberta", hey member wilber! And not an, as you say, "absolute fairy tale", right? But hey now, seeing as Harper parachuted Oakville Kenney into Alberta, that seems all-it-takes representative - amirite?

Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1827 on: August 03, 2021, 09:43:03 am »
Certainly their information is private when they are being reviewed by the committee. There is no reason their names can't be released after they have been selected.

certainly, per the Privacy Act, the respective nominees for appointment can release their own names... if they so desire. But I'll ask again, what meaning, what significance is it for YOU to know said names? Oh wait, is this in line with your conspiracy theme and doubting the integrity of the Advisory Board? I'll keep asking: particularly given a fairly rich sample now with 57 (more than half) of the current Senators having been chosen, reviewed, selected, nominated and ultimately appointed through the Advisory Board process... can you name any of those 57 Senators that you have a problem with (and why)... even just one?

Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1828 on: August 03, 2021, 11:40:49 am »
certainly, per the Privacy Act, the respective nominees for appointment can release their own names... if they so desire. But I'll ask again, what meaning, what significance is it for YOU to know said names? Oh wait, is this in line with your conspiracy theme and doubting the integrity of the Advisory Board? I'll keep asking: particularly given a fairly rich sample now with 57 (more than half) of the current Senators having been chosen, reviewed, selected, nominated and ultimately appointed through the Advisory Board process... can you name any of those 57 Senators that you have a problem with (and why)... even just one?

I don't know if the advisory board has any integrity or not because they are all federal government appointees and their deliberations and findings are secret. I don't have a problem with people, I have a problem with the system that appoints them. Both it and the Senate itself are nothing more than an invention of the federal government. Let's just do away with this sham of regional representation. It has never existed. Ever.

Not only were none of BC's five senators born in BC, only two of them were born in Canada. You would think that with almost 5 million people, a prime minister could find just one that was actually born in the province they represent.

But hey, a guy from Quebec must know who is best to represent the people of BC. Right?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 11:53:21 am by wilber »
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Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1829 on: August 03, 2021, 11:53:28 am »
I don't know if the advisory board has any integrity or not because they are all federal appointees and their deliberations and findings are secret. I don't have a problem with people, I have a problem with the system that appoints them. Both it and the Senate itself are nothing more than an invention of the federal government. Let's just do away with this sham of regional representation. It has never existed. Ever.

Not only were none of BC's five senators born in BC, only two of them were born in Canada. You would think that with almost 5 million people, a prime minister could find just one that was actually born in the province they represent.

But hey, a guy from Quebec must know who is best to represent the people of BC. Right?

You’re starting to sound rather rather xenophobic.

While I agree that it should be an open and democratic process, you are talking like anyone not born in BC could never represent the province.  That’s simply not the case.