Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 13996 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5014
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1785 on: July 29, 2021, 12:32:17 pm »
Who says the Senate has to be independent and non partisan? There is nothing in the Constitution that requires it.

since you're now selectively drawing on the Constitution, by Constitutional convention prime ministers have the power to appoint whomever they want, assuming the qualifications are met. Of course, I've challenged you several times to state an instance where a prime minister did not accept a nomination presented; and, of course, this becomes more pointedly transparent given the nature/process of the Advisory Board reform.

you've never... NOT ONCE... presented the value add an appointed "elected" Alberta Senator brings to the Senate. Again there is no presumed accountability to claimed "regional representation" as there is no accompanying re-election requirement. Without term-limit changes an Alberta "elected" Senator could position within the Senate for 45 years... likely making your preferred dependent/partisan "elected ONLY ONCE" individual eventually out-of-step with the respective region!

again, Harper Conservatives asked the Supreme Court of Canada to rule on a proposed change to the method of the selection of senators by providing for direct elections... the SCOC ruled that Parliament could not unanimously amend the Constitution in instituting direct elections for senatorial positions since this constituted a radical change in the nature of one of the component parts of Parliament. Yet somehow... you're quite fine with the end-around Alberta process; one you even go further with by stating you're quite fine with a dependent/partisan result! Oh my!

don't worry Alberta Premier justVisitingJason... after this Alberta Senator appointment, there's still one vacant Alberta Senate position remaining!


Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7476
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1786 on: July 29, 2021, 02:45:50 pm »
The committee is supposed to give the PM five candidates for each position to choose from. Who were the other choices? This process is still entirely under the control of the Prime Minister, the provinces have no say in who supposedly represents them.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Mr. Perfect

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4279
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1787 on: July 29, 2021, 03:18:49 pm »
The committee is supposed to give the PM five candidates for each position to choose from. Who were the other choices? This process is still entirely under the control of the Prime Minister, the provinces have no say in who supposedly represents them.

What say does a province have in their MPs?

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7476
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1788 on: July 29, 2021, 04:50:22 pm »
What say does a province have in their MPs?

You better think that one over.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5014
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1789 on: July 29, 2021, 06:28:58 pm »
...the provinces have no say in who supposedly represents them.

the same people who might choose to run in Premier Kenney's fantasy Alberta Senator "election" can also put their names forward to the Advisory Board. It's odd you accept party controlled... and influenced... MP nominations (that few citizens have any say in or knowledge of), yet you're so adamantly against an Advisory Board reviewing, selecting and nominating candidates for appointment to the Senate - go figure, hey!

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7476
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1790 on: July 29, 2021, 08:35:04 pm »
the same people who might choose to run in Premier Kenney's fantasy Alberta Senator "election" can also put their names forward to the Advisory Board. It's odd you accept party controlled... and influenced... MP nominations (that few citizens have any say in or knowledge of), yet you're so adamantly against an Advisory Board reviewing, selecting and nominating candidates for appointment to the Senate - go figure, hey!

Only two of the five board members are from the subject province, all five are federal appointees. I'll ask again, who were the other 4 candidates given to the PM by the board? There is absolutely nothing transparent about this process and it is all under the PM's control.

If this board selects the candidates, why does the province have no say in which one is selected?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 08:36:42 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5014
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1791 on: July 29, 2021, 08:59:45 pm »
There is absolutely nothing transparent about this process and it is all under the PM's control.

you're just recycling your ole' crapola now! Again:
=> you mean aside from the Advisory Board nominations arrived at following an open, arms length and merit-based nomination process

If this board selects the candidates, why does the province have no say in which one is selected?

yet more of your crapola recycling! Again, provincial organizations are consulted:
=> you mean aside from the Advisory Board being tasked with assessing identified nominees and/or direct applicants realized through either the Advisory Board working with provincial organizations to identify nominees for consideration or where qualified Canadians may apply directly for consideration.

as for your ad nauseum "ask again", see the Terms of Reference for the Advisory Board; in particular the Confidentiality section:


as an aside, and drawing reference to the waldo's own "ask again", since Harper had a conniption fit and eventually refused to appoint senators, PM Trudeau and the Advisory Board have been quite busy filling some 50+ vacancies (so far)... the sample size is somewhat rich for you to respond to my 'ask again": can you advise of an Advisory Board nomination that you have concerns/reservations with?

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5014
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1792 on: July 29, 2021, 09:07:48 pm »
whaaa! Alberta Premier justVisitingJason... again, stokin' the separation fires! What an azzhole!



geezaz member wilber - there's no overt politicization going on here, right? You're perfectly fine accepting this clown-show as being representative of Kenney's posturing for a "fair deal" for Alberta in Canadian federation - right?

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7476
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1793 on: July 29, 2021, 10:19:34 pm »
It's a system that is totally in control of the Prime Minister and completely secret. You damn well know it.
The process itself was Trudeau's invention.
Provinces have zero say who becomes their senators, neither their governments or the people themselves.

All your bullshit deflection and spin doesn't change that.


« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 10:23:32 pm by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5014
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1794 on: July 30, 2021, 12:32:11 am »
It's a system that is totally in control of the Prime Minister and completely secret. You damn well know it. The process itself was Trudeau's invention. Provinces have zero say who becomes their senators, neither their governments or the people themselves.

All your bullshit deflection and spin doesn't change that.

by design! You're barkingMad at the intended design makeup that simply aligns with the Westminster system... HOC lower chamber represents the populace, as elected; the Senate upper chamber represents the regions, as appointed.

I'd school you again on Harper's failed attempt before the Supreme Court... but you'd just continue to ignore it! Instead you're quite accepting to the partisan sham once again playing out in Alberta... yet another end-around the Supreme Court ruling! As for your attempted slam calling it "Trudeau's invention", why yes, the recent reform involving the Advisory Board is indeed one put forward by the Trudeau Liberal government... one you yourself called an improvement! Would you like your words quoted back to you on that, hey?

how grand of you to ignore my pointing out Kenney's stokin' the separation fires with this! How sad you blindly accept such overt politicization... that you're perfectly fine accepting Kenney's claim that this latest appointment is representative of Alberta's "unfair deal" in federation! Geezaz member wilber, get a grip!

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7476
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1795 on: July 30, 2021, 09:07:28 am »
The secrecy of this system makes it political. Not only do we not know who the candidates were, we dont even know if the selected  person was one of them? We just have to take the governments word for it because the process is completely secret. That is  entirely the governments  choice and has nothing to do with the Westminster system or anything Harper or anyone else may have done in the past.


They may be worthy people but as my province has nothing to do with their selection, they dont represent me or the province I live in, they represent the federal government that selected them. Of the five  so called BC senators, not one was even born in BC.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 09:09:32 am by wilber »
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5014
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1796 on: July 30, 2021, 11:17:54 am »
Of the five  so called BC senators, not one was even born in BC.

heelarious! 3 of those 5 were appointed by Prime Ministers not named Trudeau (as appointed by those PMs in 2001, 2005 & 2009)! But really, you sound so "old-stock"! You tried the same BS with one of the Advisory Board members... it didn't matter to you that the particular member had lived for 3 decades+ in Alberta, apparently you couldn't stomach that she was not born in Alberta! Again, so "old-stock" of you, hey!

but really, quit your snivelling - if its so important to you to know the 'other' names... put in an Access To Information request!

and again, why has no other province followed the stooopid Alberta end-around to circumvent that Supreme Court of Canada ruling? What makes Alberta just oh so special, hey member wilber?
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline wilber

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7476
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1797 on: July 30, 2021, 11:35:16 am »
heelarious! 3 of those 5 were appointed by Prime Ministers not named Trudeau (as appointed by those PMs in 2001, 2005 & 2009)! But really, you sound so "old-stock"! You tried the same BS with one of the Advisory Board members... it didn't matter to you that the particular member had lived for 3 decades+ in Alberta, apparently you couldn't stomach that she was not born in Alberta! Again, so "old-stock" of you, hey!

but really, quit your snivelling - if its so important to you to know the 'other' names... put in an Access To Information request!

and again, why has no other province followed the stooopid Alberta end-around to circumvent that Supreme Court of Canada ruling? What makes Alberta just oh so special, hey member wilber?

Stick your "old-stock" where the sun don't shine and you can stick your so called "transparency" in the same place. This government is as secretive and obstructive when it comes to openness as any in our history. The board members and the candidates are all political appointees selected at the pleasure of the PM with no public input.

It doesn't matter who appointed them but for the record, four of the five were appointed by Liberal PM's, two of them by JT. it's the fact provinces and their people have no input in the process which is secret and it is not secretive because of the Supreme Court. That is a purely political decision rooted in control.

Someone has to challenge the process because Prime Ministers will not give up control voluntarily.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline eyeball

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 896
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1798 on: July 31, 2021, 01:29:05 pm »
but really, quit your snivelling - if its so important to you to know the 'other' names... put in an Access To Information request!
Spoken like a true lickspittle. It would definitely be less insulting if you simply told anyone who's critical of your party to go **** up a rope instead of defending the lack of transparency at the heart of our governance. Its like you're saying the difference between our government and your beloved Liberals is moot.

'Freedom of information'...lol.  the whole access process should be turned 180 degrees on its head so that governments are required to request things be kept secret and out of the public's hands instead of the other way around.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 02:27:06 pm by eyeball »
Like Like x 1 View List

Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5014
Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1799 on: July 31, 2021, 05:42:29 pm »
Spoken like a true lickspittle...

...instead of defending the lack of transparency at the heart of our governance.

'Freedom of information'...lol.  the whole access process should be turned 180 degrees on its head so that governments are required to request things be kept secret and out of the public's hands instead of the other way around.

spoken with the fake outrage fervour of a true anti-government rebel pirate... you're such a parody of that old salt with a peg-leg & an eye-patch! Arrrgh!

as Harper's key toady, Oakville Kenney couldn't get senate reform done when in cabinet... so instead, as Harper's anointedOne in Alberta, he continues this end-around attempt to circumvent that Supreme Court of Canada ruling. I'm shocked you have no problems with this very suspect, very partisan, very Conservative UCP influenced, "made-in-Alberta solution" - shocked I tells ya! I guess your zeal for transparency is rather selective, hey!

as an aside, I just heard the CPC leader O'Foole lie... purposely lie, in stating, (as the waldo paraphrases), "Trudeau's PMO had its hands all over this latest round of Senate appointments! Of course O'Foole was attempting to curry favour with partisan Albertan's already in the pocket of Kenney's UCP government.

the relatively new Advisory Board process nominating Senators for appointment is working very well - PM Trudeau has now appointed 57 Senators on the recommendation of the Advisory Board... putting the same challenge to you as I have to member wilber: do you have any concerns over the merit/qualifications of any of those 57 Senators appointed on the recommendation of the Advisory Board?