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Author Topic: Government Day-to-Day  (Read 54185 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1065 on: December 06, 2020, 02:26:29 pm »
Quote from: wilber on December 06, 2020, 01:08:26 pm
"Privacy considerations" have become the knee jerk, catch all response governments in this country use to prevent oversight and accountability.

Privacy is a valid concern.  People have rights under the law.  I just don't know what they are in this case.  Do you? 

I also get the concern for public transparency and accountability.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1066 on: December 06, 2020, 02:28:52 pm »
Quote from: JMT on December 06, 2020, 01:10:54 pm
I would posit, it's because a lot of the information doesn't exist, and that other information isn't at this point able to be legally released.

Anyone who got any money from these programs would be on record right now, the info exists it just has to be pulled.  I agree with the latter.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1067 on: December 06, 2020, 02:29:23 pm »
Quote from: Gorgeous Graham on December 06, 2020, 02:06:50 pm
Knowing how government works in other programs, the amount of effort the gov will dedicate to go after overpayments will be directly related to whether it's in their benefit or not, despite the law.  If it costs more to hire/pay public servants to claw that money back than the amount of what they will actually get back they won't bother...unless they're worried about optics of public perception of doing that, which they are (for now).

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per an early Oct statement from CRA, Canadians have voluntarily made more than 830,000 repayments of COVID-19 emergency aid benefits to which they were not entitled - includes repayments from recipients of the Canada emergency response benefit (CERB) and Canada emergency student benefit (CESB).

CRA also stated it has received more than 20,000 confidential tips about suspected cheating related to COVID-19 emergency aid programs; further stating that all anonymous tips are reviewed for evidence of fraud.

Quote from: Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau
We took on debt so Canadians wouldn't have to
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1068 on: December 06, 2020, 02:41:43 pm »
Quote from: Gorgeous Graham on December 06, 2020, 02:26:29 pm
Privacy is a valid concern.  People have rights under the law.  I just don't know what they are in this case.  Do you? 

I also get the concern for public transparency and accountability.

If a company is getting taxpayer money, taxpayers have a right to know about it.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1069 on: December 06, 2020, 02:45:42 pm »
Do you guys somehow ascribe to the American notion that corporations are people. It sure sounds like it.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1070 on: December 06, 2020, 02:57:53 pm »
Quote from: wilber on December 06, 2020, 02:41:43 pm
If a company is getting taxpayer money, taxpayers have a right to know about it.

The privacy rules for other grant/benefit programs apply here.

I'd agree with benefits to corps in the very least.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1071 on: December 06, 2020, 03:08:05 pm »
Quote from: wilber on December 06, 2020, 02:45:42 pm
Do you guys somehow ascribe to the American notion that corporations are people. It sure sounds like it.

Corporations will have to disclose the income by law. It isn't the place of the government at this point.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1072 on: December 06, 2020, 03:09:13 pm »
Quote from: Gorgeous Graham on December 06, 2020, 02:57:53 pm
The privacy rules for other grant/benefit programs apply here.

I'd agree with benefits to corps in the very least.

Why, it just gives governments the ability to shovel money to corps with no accountability.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1073 on: December 06, 2020, 03:10:46 pm »
Quote from: JMT on December 06, 2020, 03:08:05 pm
Corporations will have to disclose the income by law. It isn't the place of the government at this point.

Of course it is, it's your bloody money, not  the friggin government's. It isn't a matter of national security People won't die if the information is released.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1074 on: December 06, 2020, 03:13:18 pm »
Quote from: wilber on December 06, 2020, 03:10:46 pm
Of course it is, it's your bloody money, not  the friggin government's. It isn't a matter of national security People won't die if the information is released.

And those corporations will be held accountable for that money.

I also disagree that it's my money, but we won't go down that rabbit hole again.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1075 on: December 06, 2020, 03:15:41 pm »
Quote from: JMT on December 06, 2020, 03:13:18 pm
And those corporations will be held accountable for that money.

I also disagree that it's my money, but we won't go down that rabbit hole again.

You don't pay taxes, or it's because the money is just coming fresh off the printing press?
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1076 on: December 06, 2020, 03:24:57 pm »
Quote from: JMT on December 06, 2020, 03:08:05 pm
Corporations will have to disclose the income by law. It isn't the place of the government at this point.

They don't need to disclose it for the gov to know they have it.  It's in government databases.  They don't give out money without a record of the application and the payment.

If this was publicly accessible information the media would be able to ATIP it like anyone else and the gov would have no legal choice but to release it.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1077 on: December 06, 2020, 03:26:31 pm »
Quote from: wilber on December 06, 2020, 03:09:13 pm
Why, it just gives governments the ability to shovel money to corps with no accountability.

I meant I agree that corps should be on record for what they got.  You can make a case for individuals too.  It's literally yours and my money, it doesn't belong to the Liberal gov or any party in gov.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1078 on: December 06, 2020, 03:31:56 pm »
Quote from: JMT on December 06, 2020, 03:13:18 pm
I also disagree that it's my money, but we won't go down that rabbit hole again.

It belongs to 36 million people, and we give the current gov our consent to manage it according to the law, and public servants the ability to administer according to law and gov policy on our behalf.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Government Day-to-Day
« Reply #1079 on: December 06, 2020, 03:51:26 pm »
Quote from: Gorgeous Graham on December 06, 2020, 03:24:57 pm
They don't need to disclose it for the gov to know they have it.

No, but that's how the public can learn about it.
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