Author Topic: 2021 Election Campaign  (Read 10629 times)

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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #255 on: September 08, 2021, 03:51:14 pm »
Vaccine mandates and lockdowns and border restrictions etc aka civil liberties.

What’s a “vaccine mandate” and where are these happening?
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #256 on: September 08, 2021, 06:02:34 pm »
What’s a “vaccine mandate” and where are these happening?

That's where a vaccine passport would be required such as working in the federal public service or air/rail travel and coming across the border.
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #257 on: September 08, 2021, 07:26:22 pm »
That's where a vaccine passport would be required such as working in the federal public service or air/rail travel and coming across the border.
We've had vaccine passports for travel for over 100 years. Big deal.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #258 on: September 08, 2021, 07:48:36 pm »
We've had vaccine passports for travel for over 100 years. Big deal.

Tell the protestors that.  I'm not defending their positions, i'm defending their right to protest and saying what they're protesting.  Your or my opinion or any facts whatsoever about their opinions doesn't change that.
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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #259 on: September 08, 2021, 08:40:49 pm »
Tell the protestors that.  I'm not defending their positions, i'm defending their right to protest and saying what they're protesting.  Your or my opinion or any facts whatsoever about their opinions doesn't change that.
You were defending them against the allegation their grievances were nutty. Now apparently you're not.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #260 on: September 08, 2021, 08:56:49 pm »
You were defending them against the allegation their grievances were nutty. Now apparently you're not.

BC cheque said the anger was tribalism, and MH agreed.  Anti-vax and even COVID conspiracy people protesting lockdowns and vaccine mandates isn't tribalism.  Maybe a lot of them are QAnon nutters too, but what does that have to do with the protests or tribalism?  They're angry about COVID restrictions and one or a few of them threw gravel.  These aren't anti-immigration protests from what i've seen.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #261 on: September 08, 2021, 09:26:39 pm »
I just meant in the vicious attacks on other political parties but yeah I should've used a better term.

As for civil liberties, essential services are available to everyone. Healthcare is available to covidiots too, even at the cost of other people who may need the bed.

Going to restaurants and movies isn't a 'right'.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #262 on: September 08, 2021, 09:51:19 pm »
I just meant in the vicious attacks on other political parties but yeah I should've used a better term.
You could have used the term political which just as often makes tribalism look tame in comparison.

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As for civil liberties, essential services are available to everyone. Healthcare is available to covidiots too, even at the cost of other people who may need the bed.

Going to restaurants and movies isn't a 'right'.
Restauranteurs and theater operators however do have a right to protect themselves by requiring their employees and patrons prove they're vaccinated.

What I find interesting is why so many conservatives speak out so strongly against this right of people to protect themselves, they should at least have the decency to recognize what the issue is really about. Imagine if the issue were about the right to keep guns for that reason.

Politics, meet tribalism.
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Offline MH

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #263 on: September 09, 2021, 09:59:03 am »
  Maybe a lot of them are QAnon nutters too, but what does that have to do with the protests or tribalism? 

I had to remind myself here - the general idea is that they are motivated by loyalty and group affiliation more than logic.

So if Donald Trump says that deficit spending is evil, they agree with their leader.  And if he does deficit spending, then they approve.  It's more about emotion and bonding with people who think the way you do in general.  Principles are secondary.

They are called tribal because they tend to reject institutions and public cultural practices that are based on intellect.  They suspect that facts are lies, provided by institutions.  "Trust" is an issue.

Some of the protestors may in fact be expressing legitimate concerns about government overreach and such, but the nature of the protests is perceived as not being based in logic and community-mindedness as much as it is in paranoia and provincial thinking.

Is that fair ?  Based on the people who I personally know who are into this, then I would say yes.  My staunchest libertarian friend has taken up the banner that freedom in our current situation runs secondary to duty to ones community and he is expressing his dissatisfaction with the anti-mask movement.  Also he is doing so IN WRITING.

The best invention we came up with as a liberal society is the social compact to subvert violence, and leave decisions to a public intellectual exercise.  As flawed as that system can be, it is still better than a forceful mob catharsis....
 
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Offline Boges

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #264 on: September 09, 2021, 01:20:45 pm »
I think O'Toole is going to have to answer for his buddy Jason Kenney. Alberta's COVID situation is a ****-show right now.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #265 on: September 09, 2021, 01:27:31 pm »
I think O'Toole is going to have to answer for his buddy Jason Kenney. Alberta's COVID situation is a ****-show right now.

Their 7-day average in cases is almost double BC’s.  I think BC is going to improve a bit when the passport mandate comes into effect.   The unvaccinated will be needing to stay at home a lot more.  And this should bring up vaccination rates as well. 

It might take some rubber bullets and teargas to make it work too, when the crackpots get together in “protests” at the hospitals again.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #266 on: September 09, 2021, 02:13:58 pm »
They are called tribal because they tend to reject institutions and public cultural practices that are based on intellect.  They suspect that facts are lies, provided by institutions.  "Trust" is an issue.

They don't trust government, science, or logic and are overly paranoid.  That isn't tribalism it's low intelligence and ignorance.

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Some of the protestors may in fact be expressing legitimate concerns about government overreach and such, but the nature of the protests is perceived as not being based in logic and community-mindedness as much as it is in paranoia and provincial thinking.

I agree, but that isn't tribalism.  Tribalism is politics based on group identity, like race, religion, ethnicity, language etc.  The Bloc Quebecois is tribalism.  These aren't white nationalist protests.  People aren't protesting hospitals in the name of their identity group, they're protesting for their individual civil liberties, not their group identity aka tribal rights.

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The best invention we came up with as a liberal society is the social compact to subvert violence, and leave decisions to a public intellectual exercise.  As flawed as that system can be, it is still better than a forceful mob catharsis....aka tribal

Yes I agree.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #267 on: September 09, 2021, 02:30:28 pm »
It might take some rubber bullets and teargas to make it work too, when the crackpots get together in “protests” at the hospitals again.

There is another one planned for VGH now.  They should be going to Victoria to protest Parliament, but they show their true sociopath colours protesting hospitals. 

We really need to stop coddling these a-holes.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #268 on: September 09, 2021, 02:36:01 pm »
Legault pretty much endorsed the CPC today.  Well, he said they'll be the least bad for Quebec so not entirely a ringing endorsement but an endorsement nonetheless.

You'd think toddler-mentality Albertans would be put off by that, but of course not.  Tribalism at work (just for you, Gorgeous).  ;)

ETA - yes, yes I know 'regional' is a better word, but I like subtle trolling here and there.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 02:44:55 pm by BC_cheque »

Offline MH

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #269 on: September 10, 2021, 05:42:50 am »
John Doyle in the Globe and mail rightfully condemned the format for the debate last night as ridiculous.

I thought Trudeau looked a little stiff, but other than that I didn't see any big winter losers in the first hour which is all I watched.

As an aside, our elections are now Head and shoulders above American elections in terms of quality of discussion.