Author Topic: 2021 Election Campaign  (Read 11114 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #180 on: August 26, 2021, 02:59:38 pm »
We are discussing part of the Conservative platform, it just doesn't fit your narative.

show the waldo where... explicitly where... CPC/O'Toole acknowledges the wording, the phrase, "2-tier health care".

in any case, you may suggest that's what you're discussing but, most pointedly, YOU'RE NOT! Throwing down perception, feelings, anecdote... and most dated 2-decade old best health care country rankings... has absolutely nothing to do with the CPC/O'Toole health care related campaign pledges - nothing! C'mon member wilber, try again - try harder!

Offline wilber

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #181 on: August 26, 2021, 03:37:41 pm »
geezaz member wilber... you've got to be purposely trolling! I mean, c'mon... don't you find it strange/odd that those numbers line up exactly with the 2000 WHO rankings you bungled earlier? Wait waldo, surely someone will tell wilber the World Population Review rankings are simply a reference to those same 2000 WHO rankings... surely! Oh my!

Any ranking system you care to quote doesn't put us in the top 20 regardless of the date.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #182 on: August 26, 2021, 05:03:49 pm »
Any ranking system you care to quote doesn't put us in the top 20 regardless of the date.



oh snap waldo! You're welcome! But really, again... this says diddly about Canada's healthcare constraints, limitations, areas for improvement, etc., etc., etc.! And like a junkyard dog, the waldo will keep insisting that respective party health care related election pledges need to be stated, reviewed, analyzed, critiqued on their merits or lack therein. It's a fool's errand to attempt to look at other countries on a ranking number only and make a correlation back to particulars within the Canadian health care system!

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #183 on: August 26, 2021, 06:44:16 pm »

there are an assortment of past practices, (like blatant extra-billing by doctors), that ultimately brought forward federal legislation in the form of the Canada Health Act. That federal CHA law forced provinces to enact their own legislation to ensure compliance with the CHA;

The feds can't "force" the provinces to do anything.  The CHA is voluntary, the provinces have to agree to it.  Its just an agreement between feds and provinces of "us feds will give you health transfer money and in return you promise to abide by these rules".

O'Toole nor Trudeau can't do anything to provincial health care systems without the provinces consenting.  The provinces control everything, just like the feds can't do anything on childcare without provincial consent.  The feds can give more money or take away money but they can't privatize jack all.  Taking away money from the provinces would be political suicide, the CPC isn't going to do that just to force 2-tier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Health_Act

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"The Act deals only with how the system is financed. Because of the constitutional division of powers among levels of government in Canadian federalism, adherence to CHA conditions is voluntary (enforceable by Health Canada). However, the fiscal levers have helped to ensure a relatively consistent level of coverage across the country."
I queef, therefore I am.

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #184 on: August 26, 2021, 06:45:21 pm »
I'm shocked you didn't acknowledge I busted your 'top 20' challenge!

The three ranked above us have mixed systems. Swedes are allowed to pay for private care.

these are meaningless statements in the broader context of analyzing 2-tier within the Canadian health care system - again, there are representative examples right here in Canada, yet for some reason you're fixated on country comparison by a single rank number - meaningless without in-depth analysis, ranking criteria, related data, etc., etc., etc.!

but hey, since it was an easy googly - the role of private health insurance in Sweden:

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Private health insurance, in the form of supplementary coverage, accounts for less than 1% of health expenditures. It is purchased mainly by employers and is used primarily to guarantee quick access to an ambulatory care specialist and to avoid wait lists for elective treatment. In 2017 Sweden's population was approximately 10 million; of which 633,000 individuals had private insurance, representing roughly 13% of all employed individuals ages 16 to 64 years.
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Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #185 on: August 26, 2021, 07:06:08 pm »
The feds can't "force" the provinces to do anything.

the Canada Health Act lists the conditions that provincial/territorial health insurance plans must respect in order to receive federal cash contributions... conditions (5) related to: public administration, accessibility, comprehensiveness, universality and portability. Again, towards CHA compliance, provinces have enacted their own legislation such as:
   
Quote
=> restrictions that stop a doctor who bills public medicare from charging a patient an additional amount (extra-billing);

    => restrictions that prevent physicians from billing both the public and private systems simultaneously, at least for “medically necessary” care (dual practice);

    => restrictions on physicians in the private sector charging prices for medically necessary care that are higher than those permitted in the public plan; and

    => restrictions on private health insurance for services that are covered by medicare.

and you're wrong if you belief the CHA legislation/law has no impact upon the provinces - it's exactly why current private clinics don't charge greater than what's allowed for insured services.

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #186 on: August 26, 2021, 07:16:41 pm »
Things aren't going in the right direction for JT.

early days... but yes, in the aggregate, Liberal numbers are down. Your reference to the "national number" is as stoopid as CTV continuing to play up a single Nanos poll. Perhaps you could elaborate on the value add a national number... versus regional numbers, provides - yes?

considering how biased the media has proven itself to be (who knew, ya ya), considering how lazy and inept the media has proven itself to be, considering the media does not fact-check a damn thing the lying & misinforming NDP/Singh states, considering CPC/O'Toole has made promises that have outright shifted the CPC to the centre left (and away from the CPC platform, away from the CPC base, away from the social conservative elements within the CPC)... ya, those numbers are down!


Offline eyeball

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #187 on: August 26, 2021, 08:05:22 pm »
....current private clinics....
Waldo, why is Trudeau not pledging to outlaw these abominations?

Offline kimmy

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #188 on: August 26, 2021, 11:30:17 pm »



public health care advocates state CPC/O’Toole can't have it both ways - that he has not explained how his support for allowing private, for-profit medical services squares with his assertion that he fully supports universal, public health care.

CPC/O'Toole <=> 2-tier health care

We already have considerable "public-private synergy" in healthcare. The idea that this is a threat to universal access to healthcare is a boogeyman that you guys like to haul out at election time.

My doctor doesn't work at the hospital or some government facility. She works at a little clinic that she and a couple of other doctors jointly run. When I need blood work or imaging done, I don't go to a hospital or government facility, I go to a privately owned, for-profit lab.   During the vaccine roll-out, I don't know what percentage of vaccinations were performed by pharmacists at privately owned, for-profit pharmacies. I do know that when I tried to book appointments online at local pharmacies, they were booked solid... they must have administered quite a few doses. They also administer tons of flu vaccinations every fall, and provide a lot of general-purpose healthcare advice that probably provides great value to our public health in general, ranging from helping people monitor their diabetes to providing assistance with minor issues that might otherwise see a patient go to the doctor.

If the grand dream of a national pharmacare program ever comes to fruition, one can rest assured that pharmacies won't be nationalized; rather it will involve a "public-private synergy" where the government works with privately owned, for-profit enterprises.

Another possibility for "public-private synergies" is home-care visits from care aids for patients who can still live at home and don't need full-time care but do need regular assistance for whatever minor medical issue they might have-- like changing a bandage, helping them bathe, administering an injection, and so on.  There's no need for those things to be done at a hospital or done by a highly trained professional. People who know more about healthcare and geriatrics than I do could probably come up with a lot of ideas that could improve patient care and save money at the same time; an entrepreneurial incentive could help bring these ideas to life.

"Public-private synergy" doesn't necessarily mean "two-tier".  What is important is that we maintain universal single-payer health insurance.  There's plenty of opportunity for "public-private synergy" within a single-payer system.


 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #189 on: August 27, 2021, 01:47:24 am »
We already have considerable "public-private synergy" in healthcare. The idea that this is a threat to universal access to healthcare is a boogeyman that you guys like to haul out at election time.

the waldo is hard-pressed to recognize anything you've described as potentially fitting the model of a private for profit health care clinic providing health services that physicians health practitioners are able to bill for their services. Your doctor's office example is simply a, per norm, private practice billing your B.C. government for insured services - billing that aligns with predetermined service fee schedules. Same with pharmacies handling vaccinations; per a predetermined fee schedule a pharmacy simply charges your government a set amount for each vaccination.

again, 2-tier is with respect to private clinics billing patients directly for services to a level exceeding government fee schedules - which doesn't... shouldn't happen. The threat to universal access is real; even as it stands today with these existing private clinics, medical professionals staffing these clinics have been removed from the public sphere. As I stated, these private clinics are able to maintain their viability by charging, effectively, membership fees... significant membership fees. And again, in actual implemented 2-tier, public standards deteriorate as more and more medical staff gravitate to the more lucrative private side. So yes, 2 standards of health care develop; one for people that can pay and one for people that can't.

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #190 on: August 27, 2021, 02:28:24 am »
Afghanistan: blatant political opportunism by NDP/Singh & CPC/O'Toole

since all Singh says is "bad man Justin Trudeau", let the waldo speak of the nonsense O'Toole is spewing. Canada was able to fly out 17 flights, whether O'Toole refuses to acknowledge them or not! O'Toole, a Harper cabinet minister, had the audacity to claim the federal government refused to, as he states, "re-open the special immigration pathway established for Afghan interpreters under the previous Conservative government". Geezaz waldo, the guy won't even say the Harper government! LOL!

ya waldo, what about that "special Harper government immigration pathway":


G&M reporter Marieke Walsh has been soundly criticized over long periods for carrying CPC water... to the point she's now actually attempting somewhat of a balanced make-over in covering the respective parties/leaders. How odd militaryManO'Toole can't manage a single answer with specificity - oh my!


Offline Boges

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #191 on: August 27, 2021, 08:08:16 am »
early days... but yes, in the aggregate, Liberal numbers are down. Your reference to the "national number" is as stoopid as CTV continuing to play up a single Nanos poll. Perhaps you could elaborate on the value add a national number... versus regional numbers, provides - yes?

considering how biased the media has proven itself to be (who knew, ya ya), considering how lazy and inept the media has proven itself to be, considering the media does not fact-check a damn thing the lying & misinforming NDP/Singh states, considering CPC/O'Toole has made promises that have outright shifted the CPC to the centre left (and away from the CPC platform, away from the CPC base, away from the social conservative elements within the CPC)... ya, those numbers are down!

Do you have a source that polls individual ridings?

AND, where does JT hope to make gains to re-gain a majority?

You have to concede the campaign hasn't gone his way so far. I've very surprised how Prime Ministerial O'Toole looks so far.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #192 on: August 27, 2021, 12:53:25 pm »
O'Toole is coming out surprisingly balanced.  One thing I really like about his platform is stopping all the drunken COVID spending.  He's talking a good game on housing too. 

Trudeau's little power-grab might end up backfiring spectacularly.


Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #193 on: August 27, 2021, 09:31:41 pm »
I've very surprised how Prime Ministerial O'Toole looks so far.

you mean where the CPC 'brain trust' keeps O'Toole isolated in that "virtual hideyhole"... where O'Toole doesn't go out into crowds... where O'Toole repeatedly refuses to answer questions asked of him by media? Is that your looking Prime Ministerial?

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #194 on: August 27, 2021, 09:52:45 pm »
...drunken COVID spending.

that's quite the summary phrase! Care to actually speak to what benefit spending you found/find... "drunken"?

He's talking a good game on housing too.

that's quite the analysis! LOL! "Good Game" - oh my. Here, I believe the following image presents a Global News summary on the respective housing related policy announcements - care to speak to what CPC/O'Toole has announced that's distinct and better that other party announcements... you know, to have established that "good game" you're talking up?



Trudeau's little power-grab might end up backfiring spectacularly.

power grab? Again, the average duration of completed minorities in Canada is 479 days - this PM Trudeau Liberal minority government has lasted 619 days. Again, Parliament became 'toxic and obstructionist' - those examples of down&dirty obstructionism by CPC & NDP MPs is well understood, well documented! The CPC has tried many times to bring the government down... apparently attempted power grabs you had no concerns over! If not for the propJob of the lying & misinforming NDP/Singh, an election would have been called long ago.