Author Topic: 2021 Election Campaign  (Read 11004 times)

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Offline eyeball

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #150 on: August 25, 2021, 10:25:46 am »
who are your claimed "insisters"?
Trudeau's spittle lickers and back peddlers. People like you and Jonathan Wilkinson who act as if Trudeau's promise was little more than some offhand comment that was taken out of context. Like you say voters are similarly misinformed by other parties and their partisans so it must be okay. You wouldn't have said that for any reason other than to defend the practice - two wrongs make it right is what you're saying isn't it?

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #151 on: August 25, 2021, 10:37:15 am »
I think a lot of people would support Canadians being able to access private Healthcare. All other Developed countries have a form of 2-tiere Healthcare.

yours is such a broad-brush, non-specific statement! You can say Canada has a form of 2-tier; for example those for profit private health clinics that have membership costs they claim are strictly for non-insured health services... and align with the Canada Health Act (CHA) by billing respective provincial governments for insured health amounts that don't exceed regulatory levels. Of course those membership fees are cost prohibitive to most Canadians - and of course, these clinics through court measures, have repeatedly tried to remove the requirement to align with the CHA. More pointedly these for profit private health clinics take health professionals out of the public sphere.

oh wait waldo, member Boges vaguely said, "a form of"! Would that be like Germany:
Quote
About 90% of the German population is covered by statutory health insurance, and the rest, who have higher incomes, have private insurance. Specialist treatment is mainly provided by doctors in their practices and, to a lesser extent, by hospital outpatient departments. A small percentage of the medical practices treat only private patients. Treating private patients is as much as 35% more lucrative.
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The shortest waiting time for patients with statutory health insurance was 6.8 working days for a hearing test (2.2 for private patients), and the longest was 24.8 working days for gastroscopy (11.9 for private patients). On average private patients got appointments three times quicker.

on edit: added link to referenced study
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 11:05:49 am by waldo »

Offline eyeball

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #152 on: August 25, 2021, 10:39:23 am »
... all parties present election platforms with policy intentions. For an assortment of reasons, not all policy intent realizes a legislative/law result - go figure! Those reasons run the gamut from running out of time, opposition obstructionism (yes, even in a majority government), Senate delays, provincial government influences, court challenges, policy intent review/change, external influences (say like war, pandemic, etc.), etc.. And yes, certainly include government incompetence and no intention to meet a pledged policy intent in the first place...
That was hard to write wasn't it?  Thanks btw.

I guess this is why some 44% of Canadians believe Trudeau will say anything to get elected.  That said they probably believe that's the case with most political parties and their leaders.

Online Boges

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #153 on: August 25, 2021, 10:45:34 am »
oh wait waldo, member Boges vaguely said, "a form of"! Would that be like Germany:

Or the UK, or Sweden, or Denmark, or Korea, or France, or Italy, or Australia, or or or.

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #154 on: August 25, 2021, 10:54:38 am »
who are your claimed "insisters"?
you ignored my question! As I see your post has now been tagged with 3 winner tags, surely you'll get off the pot and actually give the taggers some basis for their tagZeal - yes?

Trudeau's spittle lickers and back peddlers. People like you and Jonathan Wilkinson who act as if Trudeau's promise was little more than some offhand comment that was taken out of context.

your's is nothing more than a self-serving, agenda-driven statement crafted to fit your ad nauseum narrative. Surely you're not claiming that policy pledge was the election outcome determiner - surely not! It's your ilk that wants to manipulate FPTP results toward a 'what-if' PR alternative... meanwhile you somehow ignore the bug feature of Canadian FPTP results that include significant numbers of swing strategy voters - you know, sort of like... ranked balloting!

wait waldo, why not ask member eyeball if he would have accepted the Liberal majority bringing in electoral reform as a ranked ballot system? Ok, ok... well eyeball, would you... change for change's sake, right?

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #155 on: August 25, 2021, 11:00:05 am »
Or the UK, or Sweden, or Denmark, or Korea, or France, or Italy, or Australia, or or or.

like I said, your implications are vague and non-specific... I've given you 2 pointed examples (Canada & Germany) that more correctly describe, per your phrase "some form of", 2-tier within these respective countries. And so all you do is peal off a non-specific country list that does... does... what?

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #156 on: August 25, 2021, 11:04:21 am »
That was hard to write wasn't it?  Thanks btw.

I guess this is why some 44% of Canadians believe Trudeau will say anything to get elected.  That said they probably believe that's the case with most political parties and their leaders.

not hard AT ALL! Most political leaders... like CPC/O'Toole? O'Toole is saying and promising anything and everything to get elected - most of which doesn't even align with the formal CPC platform or to the party membership that elected him... or the base that supports him! Media wags are now starting to actually point this out - the swing to the center-left by O'Toole.

Online Boges

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #157 on: August 25, 2021, 11:11:35 am »
like I said, your implications are vague and non-specific... I've given you 2 pointed examples (Canada & Germany) that more correctly describe, per your phrase "some form of", 2-tier within these respective countries. And so all you do is peal off a non-specific country list that does... does... what?

That allows people to pay for services if they don't want to wait in a queue. Right now those people are going to other countries for such services. What kind of model is that?

I'm suggesting that a 2-tier system shouldn't be this third rail. Allowing people, who can, to pay for Healthcare is not some avenue down a US model.


Online Boges

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #158 on: August 25, 2021, 11:12:42 am »
not hard AT ALL! Most political leaders... like CPC/O'Toole? O'Toole is saying and promising anything and everything to get elected - most of which doesn't even align with the formal CPC platform or to the party membership that elected him... or the base that supports him! Media wags are now starting to actually point this out - the swing to the center-left by O'Toole.

Do I hear a hidden agenda ad being drafted?

Offline eyeball

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #159 on: August 25, 2021, 11:45:56 am »
your's is nothing more than a self-serving, agenda-driven statement crafted to fit your ad nauseum narrative.

wait waldo, why not ask member eyeball if he would have accepted the Liberal majority bringing in electoral reform as a ranked ballot system? Ok, ok... well eyeball, would you... change for change's sake, right?
That's right honest governance is as self-serving an agenda if there ever was one. 😄

I suspect any political/voting system we put in place will be a POS if we don't address all the lying and misinforming going on within it - my real ad nauseam shtick - the one you're still stick handling around.

As I've said before making one simple change, outlawing all in-camera lobbying of public officials, would likely eliminate the need to change anything else in our governance.

And now you'll get a pissy about politicians need for safe places to talk frankly without the public to muck things up. You'll pretend to be confused about secrecy vs privacy. Your ilk are actually already so transparent it's almost funny but you can never account for why can you?


Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #160 on: August 25, 2021, 12:29:56 pm »
That allows people to pay for services if they don't want to wait in a queue. Right now those people are going to other countries for such services. What kind of model is that?

it's a made-up talking point model! I recall exchanges on the other board where I punted the extent of this with real data, real numbers... of course, the sensationalized cases get media attention and distort the actual numbers. You know like those anti-single payer forces in the U.S. seeking out and promoting sensationalizing these examples. Do you actually maintain that 2-tier doesn't negatively impact upon public healthcare - is that your position?

more pointedly, the triage systems within respective provincial systems should be moving the most serious life impacting cases higher in the assorted queues...

Online Boges

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #161 on: August 25, 2021, 12:42:30 pm »
more pointedly, the triage systems within respective provincial systems should be moving the most serious life impacting cases higher in the assorted queues...

Sure. But what of non-lifesaving healthcare?

MRI waiting being the most obvious. Waiting months for an MRI when you could (when you could) just cross the border and get one immediately seems like something that we shouldn't make illegal if someone wants it here.

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #162 on: August 26, 2021, 12:11:53 am »
Do you actually maintain that 2-tier doesn't negatively impact upon public healthcare - is that your position?

asked but not answered! Let's try this one: do you recognize that 2-tier is actually 2 standards of health care?

member Boges - wait lists is certainly a most worthy discussion topic; however, proper in-depth coverage of it would completely derail this election campaign thread - no thankee! Alternatively, as each party leader is doling out the pledges, if one of those health care related pledges contains targeted wording towards wait list times and management therein, I'd be keen to pursue further - I have yet to hear that direct targeting...


CTV's Power Play: video of Evan Solomon speaking with Dr. Katharine Smart, President of the Canadian Medical Association:

Solomon asking for comment in regards CPC/O'Toole's unexplained jugglingAct to, "protect universal health care access while creating more private-public synergies":

Dr. Smart states this is one step towards a 2-tier health care system - creating 2 standards of health care; one for people that can pay and one for people who can't

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #163 on: August 26, 2021, 12:24:11 am »
If you have universal healthcare you have to fund it enough to provide the services for people.  If you ban private healthcare, but don't fund public enough so people can't get MRI's and surgeries etc, is that any better than 2-tier?  The status quo is inhumane to me.  What is worse, some people getting better healthcare than others, or a lot of people not getting the healthcare they need?

 I don't want 2-tier.  Something needs to change, we need more public funding, a lot more.

O'Toole doesn't get to decide any of this anyways so its irrelevant.
I queef, therefore I am.

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #164 on: August 26, 2021, 01:23:17 am »
I don't want 2-tier.  Something needs to change, we need more public funding, a lot more.

O'Toole doesn't get to decide any of this anyways so its irrelevant.

the Conservative 2-tier HolyGrail: that patients paying for some health care services/treatments removes them from the public wait list queues, alleviating some of the burden by shortening wait times.

waldo factoid: 2-tier negatively impacts public staffing resources as they move to work in the more lucrative private sector; accordingly, studies and data show that public wait times actually worsen. Further, for-profit private clinics also typically favour high-volume straightforward cases while leaving more medically complex... and costly procedures for the public side.

Quote from: CPC leader O'Toole
Everyone’s wait times will go down but people will be able to access services and capital will come in to drive efficiencies, drive innovation. I trust the premiers to take the lead on what more choice and more innovation means.

I won't stand in the way of provinces working with the private sector to make changes to how care is delivered. I view innovation as a good thing. I trust the premiers to do what is best for patients in their provinces. If Saskatchewan, Alberta, Ontario or Quebec want to innovate to provide better health care, I support that.