Author Topic: 2021 Election Campaign  (Read 2547 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Election Campaign - you know its coming!
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2021, 10:55:16 am »
The Liberals have done a decent job trying to help oppressed minority groups and trying to fight climate change, but oppressed people won't care too much if they can't afford to buy a home.  So JT just gives everyone free money to buy their votes.

Maybe if people could afford their own childcare the gov wouldn't need to buy it for them.

The issue isn't liberals vs cpc vs ndp this election, the issue is the corruption in our governments where no party is immune.  We've sold out to the banks and China and anyone else who throws big money at our politicians.  The provinces and municipalities are corrupt.

Everyone but the rich are screwed.  Most of your income gains are going to go into your mortgage for that tiny house in that postage sized lot that's rammed right up against your neighbour.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2021, 11:55:28 am »
of course... filing a yearly financial statement is a condition of the Canada Elections Act! The NDP has requested/received 6 extensions since 2015 - c'mon NDP/Singh... get off the TikTokPipe!




Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Election Campaign - you know its coming!
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2021, 01:20:24 am »
The Liberals have done a decent job trying to help oppressed minority groups and trying to fight climate change

I agree with the jist of your post and I'm sincerely not trolling here, what do you think they've done that's been great for the environment and 'oppressed' groups?  Photo-ops at BLM and Climate Action treaties don't count. 

Dude tried to nationalize a DOA pipeline FFS. 
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Election Campaign - you know its coming!
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2021, 01:29:57 am »
The kimmo poses a question:  is the country in better shape than it was in 2015?

JT and the Sunshine Gang swept to power on a platform proposing change. But beyond legalized marijuana, has anything really changed that much?

One of the big promises was fighting inequality. But inequality has only increased. Housing in particular is more out of reach than ever.

Democratic reform? Pharmacare? "Fighting for young Canadians"?  Transparency? Integrity? Reconciliation with First Nations people?  None of that has happened.  It's not much different than the Harper government.  The difference between this government and its predecessor is mostly superficial stuff-- identity politics and image, not substance.

Obviously the pandemic has been a big factor in the past 1.5 years and I think the Liberals have at least done a competent job of managing the medical side of that. And I think you have to acknowledge that the pandemic is the main factor in the current deficit and debt situation.  However the Liberals had over 4 years to show us what they were doing before the pandemic arrived, and aside from legalizing pot they didn't exactly inspire during that time.

 -k

JT and the Sunshine Gang.  Love it.

He threw a few crumbs here and there and talked a good game, but you're right, he achieved nothing.  The only thing (other than weed) that I can think of is that he trolled Trump a couple of times and put Canada on the map with his perceived charm.

Otherwise, nothing as far as domestic policy goes.   
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Offline waldo

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Re: Election Campaign - you know its coming!
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2021, 10:16:56 am »
The Liberals have done a decent job trying to help oppressed minority groups and trying to fight climate change

Dude tried to nationalize a DOA pipeline FFS.

hey dudette, care to explain this statement... lil' clarification, hey!
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Offline waldo

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2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2021, 10:23:59 am »
He threw a few crumbs here and there and talked a good game, but you're right, he achieved nothing.  The only thing (other than weed) that I can think of is that he trolled Trump a couple of times and put Canada on the map with his perceived charm.

Otherwise, nothing as far as domestic policy goes.

"otherwise nothing"? So misinformed, such political naivete!

...and aside from legalizing pot they didn't exactly inspire during that time.

the kimmo is misinformed and misinforming - by design, hey!

pre-pandemic... say, 2018 in review:
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    - Increasing the Canada Child Benefit to help families keep up with the cost of living
    - New EI Parental Sharing Benefit, to provide 5 extra weeks of benefits when parental leave is shared
    - Supporting 40,000 new, affordable child care spaces across Canada
    - Introduced the new Poverty Reduction Act, which if passed, will cut poverty in half by 2030

    - Lowering the small business tax rate to help small businesses grow
    - Moving forward with diversifying Canadian trade with CPTPP and CETA
    - Addressing harassment and sexual violence in federally-regulated workplaces
    - Canadians have created more than 800,000 new jobs since 2015, and Canada’s unemployment rate is at its lowest in 40 years

    - Investing in women entrepreneurs at home and in developing countries
    - New investments to end drinking water advisories on reserves
    - Moving forward on the Canada–Métis Nation Accord

    - Welcomed the largest private-sector investment in Canadian history with LNG Canada in Kitimat, BC – which will lead to 10,000 middle class jobs
    - Announced plans for co-developed legislation to protect the rights and well-being of Indigenous children and families

    - A New NAFTA – Getting a good deal for Canadian workers, businesses, and our middle class
    - Introduced the Accessible Canada Act to advance rights for Canadians with disabilities
    - New investments and a new Minister to focus on helping Canada’s seniors

    - Building affordable housing with Canada’s first-ever National Housing Strategy
    - Fighting climate change by putting a price on pollution
    - Legalizing and strictly regulating marijuana

    - Introduced pay equity legislation, so women get equal pay for work of equal value
    - Investing in education for women and girls in crisis and conflict situations
    - The largest investment in science in Canadian history

    - New openness and transparency for political fundraising events
    - Launching the Canada Service Corps to involve young Canadians in their communities

    - New Canada Workers Benefit to help Canadians working to join the middle class
    - Hosted the G7 in Charlevoix to address climate change, gender equality, and building economies that work for everyone

    - Offered an official apology to passengers of the MS. St. Louis and their families
    - Passed Bill C-76 to modernize elections and make it easier for Canadians to vote
    - Strengthening air passenger rights for Canadian travellers
    - Increased support for NATO, and renewed Canadian leadership in the world
    - Historic new investments in better transit, roads, and bridges

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Election Campaign - you know its coming!
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2021, 01:45:18 pm »
I agree with the jist of your post and I'm sincerely not trolling here, what do you think they've done that's been great for the environment and 'oppressed' groups?  Photo-ops at BLM and Climate Action treaties don't count. 

Dude tried to nationalize a DOA pipeline FFS.

I dunno my gas is more expensive, i think that helps the environment because i'm still driving a gas vehicle and all that tax money is going to the gov which they will give away to people that don't need it.

Also we have a new national holiday for indigenous people which should help alleviate their poverty.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline segnosaur

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Re: Election Campaign - you know its coming!
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2021, 07:53:08 pm »
I dunno my gas is more expensive, i think that helps the environment because i'm still driving a gas vehicle and all that tax money is going to the gov which they will give away to people that don't need it.
Although your gas prices went up, in theory it should have been offset by a decrease in your income taxes. Drive a small car, your income tax rebate is higher than your gas taxes. Drive a gas guzzler? You end up paying more on your gas taxes than your income tax rebate. (Of course, the risk is that there is no guarantee that the government won't collect more total taxes than it gives in rebates, and just wastes the money.)
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Also we have a new national holiday for indigenous people which should help alleviate their poverty.
This is one of these situations that has no easy solution. There has been abuse of indigenous people in the past. Some recognition of that fact is warranted.

The problem is that the 'indigenous people holiday' may be seen by many as just another vacation day (like how some view remembrance day).

Offline segnosaur

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2021, 08:36:47 pm »
"otherwise nothing"? So misinformed, such political naivete!

the kimmo is misinformed and misinforming - by design, hey!

pre-pandemic... say, 2018 in review:
I am not going to claim that Trudeau "did nothing".  In the past I have usually supported the conservatives, but I'm not gong to claim that Trudeau is the love child of Stalin and a Star Trek Tribble. (And I have to admit, there are some things he has done that I think were good.... his handling of drug laws for one). On covid it was pretty much a mixed bag... did some things well, other things were questionable.

On the other hand, there were some things that I think were significant disappointments.... Liberal handling of the CF18 replacements and their inability to deal with the deficit (not so much during covid, when deficit spending was expected, but pre-covid) were things i particularly disliked.

As for your list... it certainly does look impressive. But, many of those aren't necessarily the type of "big impressive project", but more of the general type of day-to-day programs any government gets involved in.

"otherwise nothing"? So misinformed, such political naivete!

the kimmo is misinformed and misinforming - by design, hey!

pre-pandemic... say, 2018 in review:
- Increasing the Canada Child Benefit to help families keep up with the cost of living
Harper also increased benefits to families with children.
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- Introduced the new Poverty Reduction Act, which if passed, will cut poverty in half by 2030
I think every party claims they will somehow reduce or eliminate poverty... in the future. Never seems to happen.
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- Canadians have created more than 800,000 new jobs since 2015, and Canada’s unemployment rate is at its lowest in 40 years
I don't think that's right. Latest figures I could find had the unemployment rate at ~7.8%. This is higher than the unemployment rate in 2019 (5.7%), and even higher than the unemployment rate in 2007 (6%, when Harper was PM).

Now, admittedly, I do not blame Trudeau for the increase in unemployment.... the increase was covid-related, a situation that he had no ability to stop. And while he may deserve some credit for not totally messing things up, I think that many of the fluctuations in unemployment rate or GDP growth are down to global factors that our PM has little opportunity to change.

See:
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210709/cg-a002-eng.htm
https://www.statista.com/statistics/578362/unemployment-rate-canada/

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- New investments to end drinking water advisories on reserves
This is a good thing. But then, the Harper government also spent millions of dollars on improving drinking water on native reserves. I suspect any government would have done the same thing.

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- Hosted the G7 in Charlevoix to address climate change, gender equality, and building economies that work for everyone
Countries take turns hosting the G7 summits. It was Canada's turn. Whomever was the PM would have hosted the summit, regardless of party.

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- Offered an official apology to passengers of the MS. St. Louis and their families
Again, these types of apologies are easy to issue and Prime Ministers tend to issue them with regularity. (For example, Harper issued an apology to students of the residential schools.)

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- Increased support for NATO, and renewed Canadian leadership in the world
What exactly does 'renewed leadership' actually mean? Sounds like one of these phrases that doesn't really MEAN anything, but easy to claim.

As for NATO, prior to COVID our military spending (as a percentage of GDP) has risen slightly since Trudeau took office, but we are still a long way from meeting our commitments.

See: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?end=2019&locations=CA&start=1960&view=chart
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Offline kimmy

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2021, 01:45:42 am »
I am not going to claim that Trudeau "did nothing".  In the past I have usually supported the conservatives, but I'm not gong to claim that Trudeau is the love child of Stalin and a Star Trek Tribble. (And I have to admit, there are some things he has done that I think were good.... his handling of drug laws for one). On covid it was pretty much a mixed bag... did some things well, other things were questionable.

On the other hand, there were some things that I think were significant disappointments.... Liberal handling of the CF18 replacements and their inability to deal with the deficit (not so much during covid, when deficit spending was expected, but pre-covid) were things i particularly disliked.

As for your list... it certainly does look impressive. But, many of those aren't necessarily the type of "big impressive project", but more of the general type of day-to-day programs any government gets involved in.

This is exactly it.  I think any government regardless how lacklustre, perhapse even the Jason Kenney government, could produce a similarly lengthy list of bullet-points that might look impressive but don't actually have any significance to the typical Canadian On The Street.

Like, you're a young Canadian, you've just finished college with a higher-than-ever student debt, and the cost of owning or renting a home has risen significantly since even when you started college just a few years ago. Is the "Canada Service Corps" going to do much to reassure you?  Like, who gives a ****.

Is this country better or worse than it was 6 years ago? Does anything on that list of bullet points impact my life at all, one way or the other? Aside from ganja enthusiasts, I am having a hard time imagining who in this country would say things have improved.

 -k
Masked for your safety.
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Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2021, 11:05:44 am »
Is this country better or worse than it was 6 years ago? Does anything on that list of bullet points impact my life at all, one way or the other? Aside from ganja enthusiasts, I am having a hard time imagining who in this country would say things have improved.

you've asked the question twice now... and keep emphasizing that, other than cannabis, you're left wanting for inspiration... without stating what you wanted/expected! Of course, per the blanket bitching-norm, there's never a qualification provided to properly delineate between provincial and federal roles, responsibilities and accountability.

your second related post has you referencing "student debt"... without qualification! Perhaps you "aspire" to an unrealistic NDP-like negation of all outstanding student debt - yes? Notwithstanding, of course, education in Canada is a provincial responsibility, in the real world, the Liberal federal government:
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increased Canada Student Grants, reduced interest costs on Canada Student Loans, improved the repayment assistance program, and gave more help to adult students and people receiving EI. Additionally, students were granted a 2-year reprieve after graduation to get started in their career before they needed to begin paying off their student loans, interest-free. Also rules were changed so that graduates don’t have to start repaying their loans until they make at least $35K, and if their income ever falls below that $35K level, re-payments are put on hold.

how surprising that you blow-off that very lengthy and very real and meaningful list of just one year (2018) accomplishments but, somehow, can't quite manage to offer-up your own list of what would, as you say, "inspire" the kimmo! More pointedly, you might speak to what and how your alternatively preferred party would have actually... inspired... you - you could do that, right?
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Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2021, 11:42:43 am »
thanks for going through the list - if I find time, I'll bite away at your response; in that vein:

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- Increased support for NATO, and renewed Canadian leadership in the world
What exactly does 'renewed leadership' actually mean? Sounds like one of these phrases that doesn't really MEAN anything, but easy to claim.

As for NATO, prior to COVID our military spending (as a percentage of GDP) has risen slightly since Trudeau took office, but we are still a long way from meeting our commitments.

latest figure (this 2021 year) has Canada spending @1.45% of GDP... yes, it's not yet reaching the bullshyte 2% level... but, officially, that aligns to expected monies for 2024-2025. Renewed leadership? One of those ways is through ongoing and continued Canadian troops deployed on behalf of NATO... and UN... engagements.

in any case: that 2% figure was initially a target guideline recommendation, never mandated - no penalties for not meeting the guideline. More pointedly, it's an arbitrary figure that was chosen simply based on declining spending after the end of the 'cold war'... and reflected what some countries were budgeting over the 1990s period - a figure of convenience, rather than one of strategy. Its also recognized as an improper measure that doesn't properly reflect upon a respective country's actual spending or NATO alliance preparedness... notwithstanding, there is no commonality of definition in what constitutes "defense spending"... there is no commonality of definition in how a country arrives at its GDP figure and military spending percentage of that GDP... there is no commonality of applying exchange rates for local currencies to IMF's GDP data/U.S. dollar equivalents... etc..

on a more pointed level, as I understand, in calculating that 2% figure, Canada does not include spending towards the coast guard or veterans programs... while, for example, the U.S. does. I trust you might appreciate the scope of Canada's Coast Guard/Search & Rescue given the size of our 3 ocean boundaries - yes? In that same vein, as some countries do, Canada also does not include the costs for federal policing, border security, etc.., in calculating that 2% figure... on this latter point, I've just tried (unsuccessfully) to ascertain if the U.S. also includes costs for U.S. federal policing and border security. And again, the flawed 2% figure is 'input spending' and doesn't account for the actual contributions respective members bring to the alliance - so-called output contributions, like troop/equipment deployments in campaigns, peace-keeping contributions, etc..

as an aside (dated Feb article): Canada set to benefit as NATO considers compensation for military deployments

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The head of NATO is proposing member states be compensated for contributing troops to some alliance missions, saying it is unfair that countries like Canada must bear all the costs when participating in operations that benefit the entire organization.

Yet NATO secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg also expects all members, including Canada, to make good on their commitments to spend more on their militaries in the face of growing instability throughout the world.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2021, 03:54:31 pm »
thanks for going through the list - if I find time, I'll bite away at your response; in that vein:
You're welcome. No big need to go through the list. Like I suggested, many of the things (or my comments about them) were not meant to be a case of "Look at how bad the Liberals have done", but more in a "Ok, they did something, but it was an action that any other government would have done in the same position".
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Increased support for NATO, and renewed Canadian leadership in the world
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What exactly does 'renewed leadership' actually mean? Sounds like one of these phrases that doesn't really MEAN anything, but easy to claim.

As for NATO, prior to COVID our military spending (as a percentage of GDP) has risen slightly since Trudeau took office, but we are still a long way from meeting our commitments.
latest figure (this 2021 year) has Canada spending @1.45% of GDP...
This actually is a slight improvement over 2019 numbers, but it might not necessarily be all that impressive...

From: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-jumps-closer-to-military-spending-target-thanks-to-covid-19-s-economic-damage-1.5154408
Canada has taken a big leap closer to meeting its promise to the NATO military alliance to spend a larger share of its economy on defence...That is because the alliance expects the Liberal government to hold Canadian defence spending steady even as COVID-19 batters the country's economic output.

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Renewed leadership? One of those ways is through ongoing and continued Canadian troops deployed on behalf of NATO... and UN... engagements.
And?

I am not opposed to those sorts of operations, but many of those operations pre-date the current Liberal government. (And its not like Canada is spearheading any of these initiatives.

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in any case: that 2% figure was initially a target guideline recommendation, never mandated - no penalties for not meeting the guideline.
You are right in that there are no penalties. But, it was a promise that governments have made in the past that we've failed to live up to. (Admittedly the conservatives failed that commitment too.)

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More pointedly, it's an arbitrary figure that was chosen simply based on declining spending after the end of the 'cold war'... and reflected what some countries were budgeting over the 1990s period - a figure of convenience, rather than one of strategy.
You are right in that the 2% figure (by itself) doesn't mean that much. But I think there is a general correlation between military spending and the ability to commit forces to various international missions. (And you can't really measure 'strategy'... "We spent a whole $3 dollars on defense last year but we used it strategically" just doesn't fly.)

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Its also recognized as an improper measure that doesn't properly reflect upon a respective country's actual spending or NATO alliance preparedness... notwithstanding, there is no commonality of definition in what constitutes "defense spending"... there is no commonality of definition in how a country arrives at its GDP figure and military spending percentage of that GDP... there is no commonality of applying exchange rates for local currencies to IMF's GDP data/U.S. dollar equivalents... etc..
I am pretty sure the definition of 'GDP' is pretty standard across most countries. (And even if there are minor variations, I doubt it would be enough to explain Canada's inability to meet the 2% promise).
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on a more pointed level, as I understand, in calculating that 2% figure, Canada does not include spending towards the coast guard or veterans programs... while, for example, the U.S. does.
The U.S. spends so much on defense that, even if they took out the cost of the cost guard or veterans programs, they would still probably greatly exceed the 2% standard.
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I trust you might appreciate the scope of Canada's Coast Guard/Search & Rescue given the size of our 3 ocean boundaries - yes? In that same vein, as some countries do, Canada also does not include the costs for federal policing, border security, etc..
While there may be some overlap over things like border security and search&rescue, I think there does reach a point where you can say the functions are different enough that they can be assumed "non-military". The fact that a government worker might carry a weapon and wear a uniform while patrolling the border doesn't necessarily make them "military", even though they both perform functions that enhance public safety.

Plus, lets face it... even the government itself doesn't seem to be making the argument that "we meet our defense spending through border patrol and search and rescue".

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2021, 07:18:21 pm »

Is this country better or worse than it was 6 years ago?


That's what we have to ask ourselves.

Besides the COVID virus itself which wasn't their fault, just like the 2008 recession wasn't Harper's fault, only their responses.

Liberals have done some good things here and there but are truly lacking in other areas.  Personally I don't think the little weasels stand up for this country in policy and rhetoric nearly as much as they should, they're too worried about hurting somebody's feelings or their own careers.  This country is weak.  It's truly pathetic to witness.
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Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 Election Campaign
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2021, 09:21:26 pm »
but more in a "Ok, they did something, but it was an action that any other government would have done in the same position"

one of your references was wrong - glaringly wrong... that being the removal of First Nation long and short-term water advisories. In this matter Harper Conservatives did little-to-nothing...

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Stephen Harper’s Conservative government implemented new laws which they said would address the crisis. The 2013 Safe Drinking Water for First Nations Act set out stringent regulations for on-reserve water/wastewater systems, but without providing for any new funding to help First Nations meet or maintain the new standards. 

At the same time, the Harper government put a virtual halt to any infrastructure spending to Indigenous communities that weren’t part of a public-private partnership (P3). 

Over the 9 years of the Harper government, only one First Nation P3 project was ever completed – a correctional facility in BC. 

Unable to meet new water regulations with crumbling infrastructure, and unable (and often unwilling) to partake in P3 projects, First Nations governments simply couldn’t get ahead. 

Over the course of the Harper government years, there was practically no improvement to the numbers of water advisories on First Nations.

as compared to the commitment given and related actions taken by the Trudeau Liberal federal government: