Author Topic: Election 2019: Do something different!  (Read 2755 times)

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Offline MH

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2019, 06:03:35 am »
Why are the Greens 'left' ?  Why do my NDP friends say they're "right" ?

Offline Granny

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2019, 08:16:26 am »
Why are the Greens 'left' ? 
Why do my NDP friends say they're "right" ?

Righties call any environmental policies "left" because it may interfere with fossil fuel business (big Oil & Gas) corporate farming (big Ag), rampant building on greenfields (big Dev).

But the Green Party is a business party attempting to change the way we do business to an environmentally sound model. E.g., yesterday May said "No new fossil fuel wells, no fracking." Subsidies for fossil fuels would end, renewable energy would be prioritized with federal support.
While a Green business plan includes a "livable wage", parental benefits, and other social benefits (most won first by unions) they don't say much about unions.
So the NDP say the Greens are right wing.

All of which says to me that the Greens are centrist, focusing on shifting business to environmentally sustainable plans.
 I see Greens as centrist supporting sustainable local-regional small-medium sized businesses (80%of our jobs) and not the corporate fossilized behemoths, while maintaining social supports.

The Greens are the party of the younger organic farmers, who can't afford to buy enough farm land to grow their businesses, while the average age of family farmers is 50+ without a means of retirement except selling their farm to Big Ag or Big Dev (much more restricted now).  If the Greens can figure out a succession plan for family farmers, the huge blue swathe across much of rural Canada could turn Green.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 08:39:06 am by Granny »

Offline waldo

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2019, 11:49:09 am »
If the Greens can figure out a succession plan for family farmers, the huge blue swathe across much of rural Canada could turn Green.

of course the issue of family farm succession is Canada wide; however, I would welcome any evidence to suggest that "the prairie rurals" will ever vote for anything other than, by name, the ~ 45 seats currently held by Conservatives.

Offline Granny

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2019, 03:21:38 pm »
of course the issue of family farm succession is Canada wide; however, I would welcome any evidence to suggest that "the prairie rurals" will ever vote for anything other than, by name, the ~ 45 seats currently held by Conservatives.

There is a natural affinity between farmers of the land  and the Greens' focus on small-medium sustainable  green business. Older or younger, all family farmers are increasingly aware that the soil and the water require protection and stewardship to remain healthy and productive.

The Conservatives have increasingly tied themselves to the big donor guys -  corporate agriculture, corporate natural resource extraction, corporate real estate/development, none of which care about policies that are useful to family farming.

The Conservatives still knock on farmers' doors for votes, then they disappear until the next election.
Many family farmers are aging baby boomers.
Are the Conservatives developing policies for succession planning for younger farmers to acquire the land and older farmers to retire.
Or do the Conservatives just tell them to sell out to Big Ag for the big bucks ?

I don't think most family farmers like that idea.
They are small business owners, attached to the land.
The Greens are the only Party who focus on relevant  policy areas.

Offline poochy

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2019, 12:31:13 am »
the environmental movement is underpinned with marxist ideology and has become home to many who see it as a means to another end.  i speak from experience of someone with two environmental science degrees, i know the type.  Think Gerald Butts.  Many others of them dont really understand what they are standing for.

And hey, maybe that is the necessary future, but most people wouldnt want it, even those voting green.
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Offline Granny

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2019, 12:47:18 am »
the environmental movement is underpinned with marxist ideology and has become home to many who see it as a means to another end.  i speak from experience of someone with two environmental science degrees, i know the type.  Think Gerald Butts.  Many others of them dont really understand what they are standing for.

And hey, maybe that is the necessary future, but most people wouldnt want it, even those voting green.
You think Gerald Butts is a Marxist? Bahahahahaha!

Maybe we just need more environmentally sound free enterprise for the masses.
Crony capitalism only works for the rich!
 

Offline Omni

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2019, 01:01:08 am »
the environmental movement is underpinned with marxist ideology and has become home to many who see it as a means to another end.  i speak from experience of someone with two environmental science degrees, i know the type.  Think Gerald Butts.  Many others of them dont really understand what they are standing for.

And hey, maybe that is the necessary future, but most people wouldnt want it, even those voting green.

It would seem you have never breathed the air in a Communist country.
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Offline Poonlight Graham

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2019, 01:14:02 am »
Abandon the Lib-Con ping pong game.
Two heads of the same corrupt monster.

Vote for something that matters.

You're assuming any other party that wins will be any different.  The Greens or anyone else would be corrupted with power like any other party.

Your argument is admirable, but IMO unrealistic.  At best the Greens swap places with the NDP and become official opposition, but that would mean splitting votes with the Liberals and giving the election to the CPC.



"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"  - African proverb

Offline Granny

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2019, 02:26:40 am »
You're assuming any other party that wins will be any different.  The Greens or anyone else would be corrupted with power like any other party.

Your argument is admirable, but IMO unrealistic.  At best the Greens swap places with the NDP and become official opposition, but that would mean splitting votes with the Liberals and giving the election to the CPC.

To me it doesn't matter - Lib-Con are both status quo, corporate controlled.
We need a better balance.
Maybe a minority with more progressive voices in the House, maybe a balance of power, more intelligent discussion, collaboration = better legislation, better  governance, imo.
That's how it's intended to work best.
More attention to small-medium local-regional businesses that provide 80% of our jobs, more voices for sustainability in local-regional environments ... a broader, more democratic and better quality of governance.


 

Offline Poonlight Graham

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2019, 08:28:47 pm »
To me it doesn't matter - Lib-Con are both status quo, corporate controlled.

I agree.  We need big-time reform in the system itself.
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"  - African proverb

Offline Granny

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2019, 09:17:53 pm »
I agree.  We need big-time reform in the system itself.
Agreed.
I didn't respond to this before ...
You're assuming any other party that wins will be any different.  The Greens or anyone else would be corrupted with power like any other party.
The only Party that can really be bought is one that has the power to implement what corporations want - ie, a Party with a majority government is the only one that can pass corporate-friendly legislation without impediment. A majority government is a juicy target for corruption.

So we need to stop that corporate gravy train, ditch that fake majority nonsense, make them work across Parties and work for us, not corporations.

The Greens platform includes implementing Proportional Representation. That helps reduce majorities and corruption.


Offline TimG

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2019, 09:44:14 pm »
The only Party that can really be bought is one that has the power to implement what corporations want
You have this bizarre fixation with corporations despite the fact that everything you own and everything you do would not be possible without the existence of corporations. Furthermore, the notion that there is a "corporate" agenda is nonsense since every corporation has different interests and these interests are no more self serving than the interests of various voters.

If the liberals and conservatives do not adopt policies that you like it is not because of "corporation" but rather because a lot of voters simply do not agree with your view of what is good for the country. The only reason you find PR attractive is you see it as tool to impose your minority views on a majority that has no interested in them.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 09:48:58 pm by TimG »
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Offline Omni

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2019, 09:54:23 pm »
You have this bizarre fixation with corporations despite the fact that everything you own and everything you do would not be possible without the existence of corporations. Furthermore, the notion that there is a "corporate" agenda is nonsense since every corporation has different interests and these interests are no more self serving than the interests of various voters.

If the liberals and conservatives do not adopt policies that you like it is not because of "corporation" but rather because a lot of voters simply do not agree with your view of what is good for the country. The only reason you find PR attractive is you see it as tool to impose your minority views on a majority that has no interested in them.

You think there is no corporate agendas when every friggin' gas pump across the city is the same price no matter what flag they fly? And that's just a fairly obvious one for you to start with.

Offline TimG

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2019, 09:58:14 pm »
You think there is no corporate agendas when every friggin' gas pump across the city is the same price no matter what flag they fly? And that's just a fairly obvious one for you to start with.
Delusional thinking is not argument. Gas prices are highly competitive. The fact that they constantly change to match their competitors is proof of that.

Offline Omni

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Re: Election 2019: Do something different!
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2019, 10:01:32 pm »
Delusional thinking is not argument. Gas prices are highly competitive. The fact that they constantly change to match their competitors is proof of that.

Every gas pump in this city is at the same exact price except if you have a Costco card and then you save 3 cents so you will come there to food shop as well. How naive are you?