Author Topic: Editorial-- sniper shot is no cause for celebration.  (Read 2013 times)

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Offline segnosaur

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Yes.  At the core, some of these people are soldiers and not terrorists. 
Even if they are "soldiers" rather than "terrorists", they are serving a cause that people should find abhorrent. The idea that slavery and beheadings for no other reason than "they pray the wrong way" are wrong is something that should be well-established, and that ISIS rejects the idea of basic human rights is well known.

They are not like regular civilians drafted into the 1940s German army, serving a country they may have been born into. Instead, they voluntarily agreed to join the fight, often traveling around the world to sign in to ISIS, all to serve a religious extremist ideal which involves harming others. The fact that they happen to wear a uniform instead of civilian clothes does not absolve them of that fact.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Yes.  At the core, some of these people are soldiers and not terrorists. 

Well the point is that they're all human beings.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Michael Hardner

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They are not like regular civilians drafted into the 1940s German army, serving a country they may have been born into. Instead, they voluntarily agreed to join the fight, often traveling around the world ..

Wait - our guys or theirs ?

Anyway, there's no arguing morality.  I have stated my opinion above, thanks for yours.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Well the point is that they're all human beings.

I will defer to military culture, as they have their own way of celebrating victory and even honouring their opponents. 

But I won't celebrate.

Offline segnosaur

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Quote
They are not like regular civilians drafted into the 1940s German army, serving a country they may have been born into. Instead, they voluntarily agreed to join the fight, often traveling around the world ..
Wait - our guys or theirs ?
I was making a comparison between a soldier in the German military during WW2 (who's actions, however honorable on the battlefield, ultimately ended up supporting a government involved in the holocaust) and a solder of ISIS (who is involved in their own set of human right's abuses).

Ultimately, both soldiers supported the actions of a 'deplorable' government, but at least the German solder could argue "I was Protecting my country"... your regular ISIS soldier probably can't make the same claim.

Offline cybercoma

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Trying to fix stuff, I presume.
Saddam Hussein seemed to have things under control.

Now Saudi Arabia.....

Offline cybercoma

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I agree with this.  But I also get uncomfortable "celebrating" incredible success in blowing off a man's head.  Even if that man might be scum.

I felt the same when Bin Laden was killed.  People were celebrating with glee, but I think we should be more humble & civil when taking a person's life when it may be necessary.  We should be pleased in our effectiveness to carry out terrible but necessary missions.  Smiles and happy celebrations seem out of place.
We should respect the achievement while being disappointed that it was necessary.

Offline segnosaur

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Saddam Hussein seemed to have things under control.

Now Saudi Arabia.....
Depends on how you define 'under control'.

Many people point to the "unnecessary" deaths caused by the invasion, or the destabilizing effect and rise of ISIS. But the fact is, Saddam was not a nice guy. Remember, while Iraq wasn't behind 9/11, they still were supporting other terrorist groups. And he is a guy who had thousands of his own citizens killed. 

Offline cybercoma

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Saddam wasn't a nice guy. He killed a lot of people. And now we're over there fixing things....by killing a lot of people.

Offline kimmy

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Yeah, the Saudis are basically ISIS with international recognition. What a shitbag country.

The Canadian presence in the Levant is intended to be in instruction and training of the Iraqi armed forces (and other anti-ISIS allies) and as such it shouldn't be too surprising that some of our personnel are within 3.5 km of active combat.  If a Canadian soldier stepped outside the instruction-and-training role to perform an action that saved the lives of our allies in the conflict, I think that's great and I don't care if the NDP feel otherwise. In fact, like Prime Minister Trudeau, I think that's cause to celebrate our excellent armed forces personnel.


I guess what I found galling was the tone of the Toronto Star piece. I don't want to use the phrase "political correctness", but I can't think of a better way to phrase it.  I mean, I'm usually on the side defending "political correctness" against reactionary voices, but in this, I just can't buy in.   The idea that a death, even an ISIS fighter, is nothing to celebrate, is just ... wrong. It's wrong. Sorry.

If somebody could have killed Marc Lepine before he killed 14 people, that would have been cause for celebration. If somebody could have killed him before he killed the 14th victim, that still would have been cause for celebration. If somebody would have killed him before he killed his 13th victim, that still would have been cause for celebration. And so on. Given that the Canadian sniper stopped what would have been an ambush of anti-ISIS allies, we don't know for sure how many lives were saved, but potentially there were at least some. We don't know how many people the slain ISIS fighter might have killed in the future, but it potentially it is at least some.  We don't need to know how many people the ISIS fighter might have killed any more than we need to know how good of a marksman Marc Lepine was to know that it would have been good if he'd been killed before we had to find out.


The Star piece proposes that every life has value.  I question this. ISIS stands for murder, ****, torture, slavery, and oppression. If you sign up to fight for those values, you DESERVE a bullet in the head. "He had a family"?  Don't care. "He could have been rehabilited"?  **** you. "He might have been brainwashed or coerced?"  Don't give a ******** that guy. Glad he's dead.  His death is one tiny victory in the fight to prevent more like him from being born or recruited.


 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline Michael Hardner

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You wrote the post that I don't agree with, but have no response to.  I think that means we're discussed it well.

Offline Hal 9000

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Like it or not, we are all on a "side".  Me, I'm on the side of the west and western values.  Anyone who says they are not on a "side", is on the other side.  Yes, I hate to say the obvious "you're either with us or you're against us", but sadly, that is what it always comes to.  You may not like it, because you want to be good people - "every life has value, even those of ISIS" and "oh hey, we all just want the same thing".  There are some of you who think we started it and therefore "deserve" whatever we get - well, that's all sort of irrelevant now, we have to deal with the present situation.  It's always interesting when people say "they're only fighting for their freedom" or "they're fighting us because of western policy" - that fact is; they are fighting us - and by "us", I mean all of us - not just the military, not just the Americans or Trump - all of us.  You can be  "politically correct" while you sit on a couch in you middle class home, preaching to all of us "racists" about how nice the Islams are - I mean, didn't Germany, France, Belguim and Sweden do the same thing.  I don't feel anything for a dead ISIS fighter, and I don't feel a thing for their parents or family either - nothing.  I would cry tears of joy if someone put big chunk of lead in Omar Khadr's skull.

It's too bad our sniper can't get a bead on al-Bagdadi or lil' Kim. 

You people think that's not a big deal what is happening in Europe right now?  You think it won't happen here?  Think again!   

Offline JMT

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Like it or not, we are all on a "side".

I don't feel that I'm on a side.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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It's intellectually lazy (or hyper-partisan nonsense) to say that if you don't celebrate a death, then you are on the terrorist's side.  you can be on Canada's "side" (whatever that means) and not celebrate this death.

Offline Hal 9000

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It's intellectually lazy (or hyper-partisan nonsense) to say that if you don't celebrate a death, then you are on the terrorist's side.  you can be on Canada's "side" (whatever that means) and not celebrate this death.

It's a good thing nobody said that.