Author Topic: Editorial-- sniper shot is no cause for celebration.  (Read 1998 times)

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Offline kimmy

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Editorial-- sniper shot is no cause for celebration.
« on: July 01, 2017, 01:44:27 pm »
Recently a Canadian sniper set a new record for longest confirmed kill-- killing a Daesh fighter preparing to ambush our allies from over 3.5 km away.  Prime Minister Trudeau said the achievement was “something to be celebrated for the excellence of the Canadian Forces in their training, in the performance of their duties.”

I agree-- first off, Trudeau framed it as celebrating the excellence of our Armed Forces personnel.  I see nothing wrong with that.  In fact, 3 of the 5 longest confirmed kills were performed by Canadian snipers. One American and one Brit are on the list.  The Canadians serving overseas no doubt took pride in the recognition.   And secondly, ISIS are the scum of the earth and I think that any death of a Daesh fighter is cause for celebration.

The Toronto Star feels this is entirely inappropriate, however.   Here they scold Trudeau for saying the sniper's achievement was cause for celebration. All life is valuable, they say, and that even the death of an ISIS fighter is cause for sober reflection on the loss of life.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2017/07/02/sniper-shot-is-no-cause-to-celebrate-editorial.html

To me it seems ridiculous. That guy, whoever he was, was fighting for a group responsible for sickening brutality. The world is a better place without him.  That's my view, at least. 

Am I a psychopath, or is the Toronto Star out of their freaking gourds?

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

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Offline SirJohn

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You're aware the Star is (as far as I know) the only news organization in Canada which has, as part of their guiding mandate, to push progressive and liberal views, right? As far as the Star is concerned there should be no guns in Canada, and no military. As long as we're nice, everyone else will be nice. Besides, the guy he killed was almost certainly not White, which makes it much more terrible that he did it. He should have arrested him and given him a proper trial.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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I think the bigger issue is why was a sniper shooting at ISIS while in Iraq in the first place.  Harper got us knee-deep into the Iraq War to risk blood & treasure to fix problems created by other stupid countries, Trudeau seems fine continuing this.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline SirJohn

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I think the bigger issue is why was a sniper shooting at ISIS while in Iraq in the first place.  Harper got us knee-deep into the Iraq War to risk blood & treasure to fix problems created by other stupid countries, Trudeau seems fine continuing this.

Trying to fix stuff, I presume. I think it was Colin Powell who said 'You break it, you own it" in reference to Iraq. If you presume the state of Iraq today has something to do with western intervention then some might suggest we should help fix things.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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I have no strong opinion here.  Military is necessary, and as such there is a dark art and even a pragmatic humanity in what they do.

I don't see the value in taking one side of a difficult question, and asking if they are crazy or even worse ascribing a conspiracy theory to their opinion.

Offline BC_cheque

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Trying to fix stuff, I presume. I think it was Colin Powell who said 'You break it, you own it" in reference to Iraq. If you presume the state of Iraq today has something to do with western intervention then some might suggest we should help fix things.

I agree to a point but in the last 16 years since the 'war on terror' began, not only is fighting militarily not helping, terror is just worse year after year.   

A lot of us sane people predicted this when Bush was going into Iraq, but the war-mongers wanted to see some Arab blood fresh after 9-11 and didn't really care about the ramifications.  Now the chickens are coming home to roost and the answer is to continue digging while getting deeper.

Sadly, unlike 2003, I don't even know what the Plan B is anymore but all I know Plan A isn't working.

Maybe it's like Vietnam, a war that can't be won.  We just need to let the Middle East sort itself out.
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Offline JMT

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Terror isn't actually worse in terms of casualties though.  We've done a pretty good job of destabilizing the terror networks, but it's hard to beat an idea.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Yes, it's hard to beat an idea that gets stronger with every bomb.

And I'm not sure where you're getting the number of casualties from.  What are you basing it on, attacks on westerns nations?  Including 9-11?

If so, that one event would skew the numbers substantially.

If you include terror attack in the middle east, it's definitely worse now than ever.

Offline JMT

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Yes, it's hard to beat an idea that gets stronger with every bomb.

And I'm not sure where you're getting the number of casualties from.  What are you basing it on, attacks on westerns nations?  Including 9-11?

If so, that one event would skew the numbers substantially.

If you include terror attack in the middle east, it's definitely worse now than ever.

I'm speaking of terror deaths in western countries.  There were several major attacks, such as those in London and Madrid m,id last decade that don't seem to be possible now.  Events now are generally much smaller, if no less tragic.

Offline BC_cheque

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Well, I don't discount the lives of the people dying in the middle-east.  Overall, terror is killing way more people than 2001 and it's very concerning. 

Also, even if accepting your stats about the number of casualties as truth, it's irrelevant.  For argument's sake, let's accept that they're smaller and less destructive.  They're way more frequent which goes to show there are more people willing to drive a car into crowd than fly a plane into a building.  That's not a good thing. 

Also, if the end goal of terrorism is to strike fear in the mind of society, it's actually more efficient way to go about it.  Every time there is a big crowd for something, I think to myself that one day it'll happen in Canada too and someone will end up running a truck through the crowd or pulling out a gun and start killing people randomly.  I don't think of a mass orchestrated plan at all though.  As the attacks become more mainstream, the chances of them happening seem to become more likely too and not as unfathomable. 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 10:10:07 am by BC_cheque »

Offline segnosaur

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I think the bigger issue is why was a sniper shooting at ISIS while in Iraq in the first place.  Harper got us knee-deep into the Iraq War to risk blood & treasure to fix problems created by other stupid countries, Trudeau seems fine continuing this.
I don't think anyone can point to one specific cause of the rise of ISIS. But even if the problems were caused mainly by other countries (such as the U.S. removal of Saddam and its problematic occupation), the fact is ISIS exists, and many people in the middle east are suffering for it through no fault of their own. Military action aimed partly at helping those people would be acceptable to many people (including myself).

There is also the more selfish motive... even if Canada didn't have a hand in creating ISIS, we could possibly be affected regardless.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Without the Iraq war stupidity, ISIS would not have the influence and power they have today.  It was a direct result.

Offline segnosaur

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Without the Iraq war stupidity, ISIS would not have the influence and power they have today.  It was a direct result.
I'd say the bigger problem wasn't the war itself, but the way the U.S. handled the aftermath... The way they disbanded the military, etc. But I also think there were other players: The Syrian government (who took no efforts to deal with ISIS early on, and in some cases supported them), the whole "Arab Spring" (which also had a destabilizing effect.)

But regardless of the cause, the end result is the same... a large group of individuals (citizens in Iraq/Syria living in/near ISIS territory) who are subject to significant repression. Having Canada sit back and point fingers doesn't help those people. And while the long term solutions will be more complex than "Lets bomb them", in the short term military action is probably the best way to go.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Military is necessary, and as such there is a dark art and even a pragmatic humanity in what they do.

I agree with this.  But I also get uncomfortable "celebrating" incredible success in blowing off a man's head.  Even if that man might be scum.

I felt the same when Bin Laden was killed.  People were celebrating with glee, but I think we should be more humble & civil when taking a person's life when it may be necessary.  We should be pleased in our effectiveness to carry out terrible but necessary missions.  Smiles and happy celebrations seem out of place.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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I agree with this.  But I also get uncomfortable "celebrating" incredible success in blowing off a man's head.  Even if that man might be scum.

Yes.  At the core, some of these people are soldiers and not terrorists. 

Quote
  Smiles and happy celebrations seem out of place.

I agree.