Author Topic: Deficits Schmeficits!  (Read 979 times)

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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2018, 03:22:20 pm »
The deficit in Trudeau's last year was $71 billion. As late as 1995 it was still over $50billion. If we start with a multi year $20 billion deficit where does that lead in a similar downturn? And next year is an election year? Is there anyone sane who doesn't think Trudeau will increase spending?

Yes, it is all Trudeau's fault. I heard Peter Peter Pumpkin Eater Poilevre on the radio this morning saying how wonderful the Harper government was in the first two years when it paid down billions in debt. Of course the little weasel forgets to mention the fact that they inherited a record surplus from the previous government, and turned it into a deficit before the recession hit. They only paid down debt because they had a budget from Martin that allowed them to. They squandered away billions and billions, year after year until someone has the sensibility to restore proper taxation to the rich (Trudeau did a very small bit), corporations, and the GST. That is the reason we are running deficits, it is 100% on Harper/Flaherty.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2018, 04:04:42 pm »
Yes, it is all Trudeau's fault. I heard Peter Peter Pumpkin Eater Poilevre on the radio this morning saying how wonderful the Harper government was in the first two years when it paid down billions in debt. Of course the little weasel forgets to mention the fact that they inherited a record surplus from the previous government, and turned it into a deficit before the recession hit. They only paid down debt because they had a budget from Martin that allowed them to. They squandered away billions and billions, year after year until someone has the sensibility to restore proper taxation to the rich (Trudeau did a very small bit), corporations, and the GST. That is the reason we are running deficits, it is 100% on Harper/Flaherty.

I really don't get how liberal fanatics like you think anyone will take you seriously when you ignore the recession and ignore that your party was basically falling all over itself demanding ever more spending. You're just a **** political hack.

Maybe the rage in you blinds you to the reality that everyone else can readily understand.

Let me explain something to you, comrade. The Tories lowering taxes is not "squandering" billions. It is simply btaking less from those who earned it. As for your sniveling complaint about the rich and Harper, the Parliamentary Budget officer pointed out that income inequality increased under the Liberals, and then stopped when Harper was elected and decreased every year thereafter due to his tax changes.

The budget was more or less balanced, until Trudeau got in and then started buying the votes of people who couln't care less about this country or their kids. They're called "the left". Blaming the budget deficit on Harper is just almost breathlessly stupid, and the kind of thing only a fanatic would even try.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 04:08:23 pm by SirJohn »
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2018, 04:19:05 pm »
I am a blind, raging liberal, breathlessly stupid, fanatic political hack.

I guess pointing out facts is not appreciated.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2018, 04:21:42 pm »
I am a blind, raging liberal, breathlessly stupid, fanatic political hack.

I guess pointing out facts is not appreciated.

Pointing out facts is fine. Making up your facts is not.
If I ridicule Trump for making up his own facts why do you imagine I wouldn't do the same to you?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 04:26:25 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2018, 07:00:27 pm »
Yes, it is all Trudeau's fault. I heard Peter Peter Pumpkin Eater Poilevre on the radio this morning saying how wonderful the Harper government was in the first two years when it paid down billions in debt. Of course the little weasel forgets to mention the fact that they inherited a record surplus from the previous government, and turned it into a deficit before the recession hit. They only paid down debt because they had a budget from Martin that allowed them to. They squandered away billions and billions, year after year until someone has the sensibility to restore proper taxation to the rich (Trudeau did a very small bit), corporations, and the GST. That is the reason we are running deficits, it is 100% on Harper/Flaherty.

This makes no sense.  Please explain how Trudeau running deficits is Harper/Flaherty's fault because I don't follow.

The Trudeau gov is literally GIVING AWAY money (via grants) to employers including private businesses so they can pay the salaries of students they hire with the Canada Summer Jobs program, that program receiving a huge flush of funding when the Trudeau gov was elected.  Apparently college kids were having problems finding jobs or something (allegedly), but of course if you ask any farmer these kids aren't willing to work hard on farms so we have to bring in temporary foreign workers.  Just one example.

BTW if you have a small business and want the government to pay half the wages for some college kids to work for you for the summer, apply today!
« Last Edit: November 23, 2018, 07:41:04 pm by Poonlight Graham »
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Offline Rue

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2018, 07:11:03 pm »
Hey Poon  I thought he meant  Indiana Jones.
You have me mistaken with an eagle. I only come to eat your carcass.

Offline wilber

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2018, 10:40:24 am »
Like many western economies, yeah - services are important.

Problem is, the list of Canadian companies that aren’t foreign owned branch plants is getting shorter. Making stuff is important too. We just replaced our furnace. I was able to find a single designed and built by a Canadian company brand. Just one.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2019, 03:26:44 pm »
Fitch issues warning over Canada's debt level.  It's exactly what I've been saying all along re: risk during the next recession + also considering the debt of the provinces, & seems to agree with Coyne in the OP:

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/close-to-a-level-that-is-incompatible-with-aaa-status-fitch-warns-about-canadas-credit-rating-161850591.html

Quote
“Canada's gross general government debt, combining federal and provincial fiscal accounts, is higher than other 'AAA' rated sovereigns, excepting the U.S, and remains close to a level that is incompatible with 'AAA' status.”

“We continue to forecast the general government debt ratio to fall toward 85 per cent of GDP over the medium term.”

The credit rating agency says it is encouraged by efforts in the latest federal budget to reduce the debt burden.

“However, modest fiscal loosening and sustained deficits will increase the economy's exposure to a downturn,” said Fitch Ratings in a research note.

Fitch Ratings says it’s not sure Ottawa's plan to tighten the purse strings will work.
Quote
The credit rating agency isn’t sounding the alarm just yet, but there could be trouble ahead.

“While the budget is broadly in line with earlier trends, the preference for continued deficits and increased program spending over fiscal consolidation could increase the vulnerability of public finances to a faster economic slowdown or sudden shock,’ said Fitch Ratings.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2019, 06:19:44 pm »
Fitch issues warning over Canada's debt level.  It's exactly what I've been saying all along re: risk during the next recession + also considering the debt of the provinces, & seems to agree with Coyne in the OP:

It's pretty misleading though, as they have no problem with what Ottawa is doing.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2019, 09:29:16 pm »
It's pretty misleading though, as they have no problem with what Ottawa is doing.

Why do you say that?

It says things are ok now, the fed deficits on their own & in a bubble are modest, but the indefinite years of planned deficit spending with no real forecast to balance the budget combined with debt/deficit problems of some of the provinces exposes us to risk if a recession hits.  It says among AAA nations only the US has more general gov debt, and Canada is nearing a downgraded credit rating.

When a recession hits, government revenue will plummet, GDP will plummet, expenditures (stimulus, EI payments etc) will increase.  Debt to GDP will not remain what it is.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2019, 06:01:28 am »
Why do you say that?

It says things are ok now, the fed deficits on their own & in a bubble are modest, but the indefinite years of planned deficit spending with no real forecast to balance the budget combined with debt/deficit problems of some of the provinces exposes us to risk if a recession hits.  It says among AAA nations only the US has more general gov debt, and Canada is nearing a downgraded credit rating.

When a recession hits, government revenue will plummet, GDP will plummet, expenditures (stimulus, EI payments etc) will increase.  Debt to GDP will not remain what it is.

Sane assessment.  But Schmeficits is not a word.

I think people need to imagine a government that is cheaper to run and does more for average people... but they think it's impossible.

Offline JMT

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2019, 11:27:33 am »
Why do you say that?

It says things are ok now, the fed deficits on their own & in a bubble are modest, but the indefinite years of planned deficit spending with no real forecast to balance the budget combined with debt/deficit problems of some of the provinces exposes us to risk if a recession hits.  It says among AAA nations only the US has more general gov debt, and Canada is nearing a downgraded credit rating.

When a recession hits, government revenue will plummet, GDP will plummet, expenditures (stimulus, EI payments etc) will increase.  Debt to GDP will not remain what it is.

It literally said they are encouraged by Ottawa’s efforts to keep deficits small.

Offline JMT

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2019, 07:57:46 am »
Pretty hard to see Canada as having a debt problem in this context:

https://twitter.com/twitscotty/status/712999955632402432?s=21

Offline wilber

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2019, 06:48:14 pm »
The table in that tweet just shows federal debt to GDP. Factor in provincial and municipal debt it is closer to 90%.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Deficits Schmeficits!
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2019, 06:37:44 pm »
The table in that tweet just shows federal debt to GDP. Factor in provincial and municipal debt it is closer to 90%.

No, that's not what that chart shows at all - when counting public sector pensions, Canada has a negative debt to GDP ratio - the only G7 country to have such a surplus.