Author Topic: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline  (Read 3464 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #195 on: September 07, 2018, 02:44:30 pm »
Again tonnage and potential impact of spill are important metrics you are ignoring. Yes, container and dry bulk carrier ships can be just as large as tankers. I am just pointing out use the tonnage metrics, not just volume. A small tanker has far lower noise and pollution than a large container ship, and visa-versa. The potential impact of a spill depends on the cargo.

True enough. It's not just about noise. There's a difference between a barge flipping over and dumping a load of logs or lumber into the straits and a tanker hitting a stone and covering the waters with heavy crude or dilbit. That I suspect is why the courts put a hold on this project because there wan't sufficient consideration of the increased potential for environmental disasters due to the increased tanker traffic, and how to prevent them. They are still scraping the sludge off the rocks from the Exxon Valdez.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #196 on: September 07, 2018, 05:35:59 pm »
Again tonnage and potential impact of spill are important metrics you are ignoring. Yes, container and dry bulk carrier ships can be just as large as tankers. I am just pointing out use the tonnage metrics, not just volume. A small tanker has far lower noise and pollution than a large container ship, and visa-versa. The potential impact of a spill depends on the cargo.
...
True enough. It's not just about noise. There's a difference between a barge flipping over and dumping a load of logs or lumber into the straits and a tanker hitting a stone and covering the waters with heavy crude or dilbit. That I suspect is why the courts put a hold on this project because there wan't sufficient consideration of the increased potential for environmental disasters due to the increased tanker traffic, and how to prevent them. They are still scraping the sludge off the rocks from the Exxon Valdez.


Ships haven't been capsizing as far as I've heard, but the whales are dying anyway.   It's not the 5 tankers per month that is killing them, it's the constant shipping activity:
Quote
Shipping noise interferes with the ability of killer whales to track prey and communicate with one another in the hunt, and is considered one of several key stressors on the population, along with declining chinook salmon stocks and environmental pollutants.

By the time the Trans Mountain expansion is built, we might not even need to worry about the effect of tankers on the whales.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline kimmy

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #197 on: September 07, 2018, 05:56:09 pm »
The 1980 Peter Lougheed version of "turn off the taps" was pretty much that.  Alberta oil shipments to the rest of Canada were reduced during the legal battle with the federal government.

The 2018 Rachel Notley version of "turn off the taps" just involves switching the existing Trans Mountain line over to carry 100% bitumen.  The net effect for Alberta would be more sales of bitumen in exchange for lower sales of crude oil and refined products... but they might be able to find buyers in Eastern Canada and the US for the crude oil and refined products not being sent to BC, because they're more marketable and in-demand.  For BC, bitumen is of no use, because BC has no refineries able to process bitumen. All the bitumen that comes out of the pipeline would be shipped overseas.

The mechanics of the law involves requiring export permits for petroleum products, something Alberta already requires for LNG producers. They would simply issue permits for oil and refined products to be shipped south or east, while only issuing Trans Mountain Pipeline export permits to people exporting bitumen.

The law makes no reference to BC, and frames the purpose in terms of maximizing exports by making most efficient use of existing pipeline capacity.


 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline kimmy

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #198 on: September 07, 2018, 06:02:11 pm »
I'm wondering whether there's a potential for Alberta and Saskatchewan to team up with Manitoba to build a shipping terminal on Hudson Bay. No fricking BC and Quebec to deal with, at least, and a lot less unsettled land claims and so-on in regard to First Nations.

Is Northern Manitoba's coast viable for shipping?

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline kimmy

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #199 on: September 07, 2018, 06:26:40 pm »
Most of you probably know I spent much of my childhood in Edmonton.  But you didn't know that I grew up just a short walk from the Trans Mountain Pipeline.  While I was there, I went for a stroll around the old neighborhood and took a few pictures, so that you can understand what it was like growing up in such a nightmarish environment.  Perhaps this is what caused me to turn out the way I am, I really don't know.  Anyway, here's the marker:



And what lies beyond?  This hellscape:



 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline kimmy

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #200 on: September 07, 2018, 06:30:59 pm »
It gets even more terrifying.  Not a strip-mall, not a bubble-tea house, not a Vietnamese nail salon, just more and more of this endless awful green space.  Just joggers and dog-walkers and kids playing.  Madness.



And as the hidden underground monster reaches the end of the Lansdowne neighborhood, another of these terrifying sign-posts. What lies beyond?



 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline kimmy

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #201 on: September 07, 2018, 06:38:00 pm »
What lies beyond??

The western-most field of the University of Alberta experimental farm.  But despite this peaceful-looking, almost pastoral scene, the unseen terror was beneath the soil, not far from where I stood as I took this picture.



But what next??

Finally the monster reveals itself!  Surging forth from beneath the ground as it surges across the steep valley carved by tiny Whitemud Creek on its way to the North Saskatchewan, the pipeline leaps across the creek on this little trestle bridge, like a freight train from HELLLLLL, powering westward on its journey to ruin Aboriginal lives and destroy killer whales.






So now you have seen the horrors for yourself.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City


Offline SirJohn

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #203 on: September 07, 2018, 09:30:37 pm »
You're right. Let's not have oil pipelines. This is WAY better! Look at the vast beauty of the landscape without oil pipelines!

from r/CatastrophicFailure
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum


Offline Omni

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #205 on: September 07, 2018, 09:45:52 pm »

Offline poochy

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #206 on: September 08, 2018, 02:14:58 am »
So maybe we need to continue to move toward renewables.

Lets here about your as of yet unrevealed and viable technology for mass energy storage.

sigh.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #207 on: September 08, 2018, 01:22:37 pm »
And then here's a few from Kalamnzoo.

http://media.mlive.com/kzgazette_impact/photo/oil-spill-kalamazoo-river-779ac66e30f50f74.jpg

https://www.google.ca/search?q=oil+spills+into+kalamazoo+river+photos&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=SrZkyZGkfxXBzM%253A%252CKXyoReAYH0V_ZM%252C_&usg=AFrqEzfz5HJrOG3mtNgZi_5oY8iWk4s8Sw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjWjq72kqrdAhXqCTQIHccbCbAQ9QEwAHoECAYQBA#imgrc=OMS9eCm1UQL8CM:

I guess you're right... pipelines are actually very dangerous.  The Trans Mountain pipeline is 65 years old, it is probably a ticking timebomb, ready to spring a leak any day now.  It should be shut down for inspection and refurbishment, to make sure that it is still safe to use.  We can't take any needless risks when it comes to protecting the environment.

This would be a great time to do refurbishment on the Trans Mountain pipeline!  There are 2000 people working on the expansion right now who are going to be laid off very soon as construction on the expansion closes down again.  What better time to put all those laid-off workers to work?  I think this is a great plan for both the environment and employment.

So maybe we need to continue to move toward renewables.

This is a great idea! Vancouver can show leadership by  switching over to renewables while the Trans Mountain is renovated!  Think of all the carbon emissions that will be saved by not having awful fossil-fuels to burn!  Andrew Weaver will be thrilled!

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline kimmy

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #208 on: September 08, 2018, 01:31:37 pm »
Quote
Wilkinson is adamant that tankers are only part of the problem.

"People who point to the tankers as the source of the problem for the killer whales, I think, fundamentally don't understand the problem," he said.

Wilkinson pointed to the few thousand large container ships that come into the harbour each year, the daily B.C. Ferries trips between the Lower Mainland and surrounding islands, and the tens of thousands of recreational vessels as equally problematic.

"Each one creates noise," he told Stephen Quinn, the host of CBC's The Early Edition.

"If we are going to recover the southern resident killer whale, we need to take action that will mitigate noise from all of those sources, not simply six or seven tankers coming out of the terminal every week."


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jonathan-wilkinson-whale-lawsuit-and-tankers-1.4813168


Tankers were a convenient target, but the truth is a lot less convenient.


 -k
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 01:34:52 pm by kimmy »
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline Omni

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Re: Courts quash Trans Mountain pipeline
« Reply #209 on: September 08, 2018, 01:38:47 pm »
I guess you're right... pipelines are actually very dangerous.  The Trans Mountain pipeline is 65 years old, it is probably a ticking timebomb, ready to spring a leak any day now.  It should be shut down for inspection and refurbishment, to make sure that it is still safe to use.  We can't take any needless risks when it comes to protecting the environment.

This would be a great time to do refurbishment on the Trans Mountain pipeline!  There are 2000 people working on the expansion right now who are going to be laid off very soon as construction on the expansion closes down again.  What better time to put all those laid-off workers to work?  I think this is a great plan for both the environment and employment.

This is a great idea! Vancouver can show leadership by  switching over to renewables while the Trans Mountain is renovated!  Think of all the carbon emissions that will be saved by not having awful fossil-fuels to burn!  Andrew Weaver will be thrilled!

 -k

It may be ready to spring a leak, but it certainly won't be the first one. Over its history it has already dumped about 40,000 barrels. Luckily NIMBY.