Author Topic: GG Comments on Religion  (Read 309 times)

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Offline TimG

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Re: GG Comments on Religion
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2017, 05:30:11 pm »
In addition, the government has moved eight lignite coal-power plants into what’s called a “cold capacity reserve”.
Context is everything. 2.7GW is < 2% of Germany's capacity. It has >55GW of active coal capacity. Moth balling a few old plants is hardly a paradigm shift. More importantly, the point you are missing is they can't get rid of them because without that reserve they put their system at risk. The fact that renewables require this kind of excess capacity is why they are so bloody expensive (the media never reports the true cost of renewables including the cos of building and maintaining the 'cold capacity reserve').

guest4

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Re: GG Comments on Religion
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2017, 05:32:54 pm »
I made the argument that Germany had hit the limit with renewable and was relying on coal for base load.  Implicit is that statement is an acknowledgement that Germany had been increasing renewables so a chart showing that Germany did exactly what I implied it was doing is quite irrelevant.
Given that the chart showed increasing use of renewables and decreasing use of coal right through 2016, I fail to see how your assertion that they've reached the limit on renewable energy is supported. 


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Offline Omni

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Re: GG Comments on Religion
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2017, 05:43:28 pm »
Context is everything. 2.7GW is < 2% of Germany's capacity. It has >55GW of active coal capacity. Moth balling a few old plants is hardly a paradigm shift. More importantly, the point you are missing is they can't get rid of them because without that reserve they put their system at risk. The fact that renewables require this kind of excess capacity is why they are so bloody expensive (the media never reports the true cost of renewables including the cos of building and maintaining the 'cold capacity reserve').

Except they are not "so bloody expensive". Costs have been falling significantly for some time. And you don't build "cold reserve capacity", it already exists. Either you are somehow endeared to keeping fossil fuels polluting the atmosphere, or you just aren't keeping up to date on the issue.

 The greater “bang-for-buck” resulted from plummeting prices for solar and wind power and led to new power deals in countries including Denmark, Egypt, India, Mexico and the United Arab Emirates all being priced well below fossil fuel or nuclear options.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/06/spectacular-drop-in-renewable-energy-costs-leads-to-record-global-boost

Offline MH

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Re: GG Comments on Religion
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2017, 05:47:03 pm »
FFS I give up.

They don't want to talk about the GG...

Offline Omni

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Re: GG Comments on Religion
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2017, 06:09:19 pm »
I think the GG thing has become a bit of a tempest in a teapot.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: GG Comments on Religion
« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2017, 08:38:27 pm »
The issue here however is that a certain group of people (i.e. the creationists) are pushing a "theory" that has no basis in fact.

There is no way to address the lack of scientific basis for creationism without saying it is false.
Thats not really the issue. Creationism is dumb. But the fact remains that the GG is literally the Queen’s rep. The Queen of Canada is the physical embodiment of the state....that means everyone. The GG has no place mocking anyone, as the representative of the physical embodiment of the nation. There are other ways she could have made her point without belittling anyone.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: GG Comments on Religion
« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2017, 08:41:35 pm »
I think the GG thing has become a bit of a tempest in a teapot.
it’s definitely that. The CPC only brings it up to criticize Trudeau for choosing her.

Offline TimG

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Re: GG Comments on Religion
« Reply #52 on: November 15, 2017, 09:09:25 pm »
Given that the chart showed increasing use of renewables and decreasing use of coal right through 2016, I fail to see how your assertion that they've reached the limit on renewable energy is supported.
The chart is irrelevant. It neither supports nor refutes my claim. My claim is based on various decisions taken by the German government to limit the further expansion of renewables and it maintain their coal based power supply (notwithstanding the green party wishful thinking). See: http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/germany-cutting-back-renewable-subsidies-stabilize-electric-grid/

Now I am sure other people will post  links to *wishful thinking" for the future but such claims don't mean much compared to the real actions of the German government.

The bottom line is renewables can't replace base-load - that is an irrefutable engineering fact given technology available today. Now engineering deniers like waldo can scream about unicorn farts and pixie dust but it is not going to change reality. The fact that so many of the people castigating people for being skeptical of the science regarding AGW are so quick to ignore the science when it comes to supplying electric or population growth demonstrates that science means nothing to them. It is just a tool used to advance their cult which is discarded whenever it is inconvenient. 

Offline Omni

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Re: GG Comments on Religion
« Reply #53 on: November 15, 2017, 09:26:11 pm »
The chart is irrelevant. It neither supports nor refutes my claim. My claim is based on various decisions taken by the German government to limit the further expansion of renewables and it maintain their coal based power supply (notwithstanding the green party wishful thinking). See: http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/germany-cutting-back-renewable-subsidies-stabilize-electric-grid/

Now I am sure other people will post  links to *wishful thinking" for the future but such claims don't mean much compared to the real actions of the German government.

The bottom line is renewables can't replace base-load - that is an irrefutable engineering fact given technology available today. Now engineering deniers like waldo can scream about unicorn farts and pixie dust but it is not going to change reality. The fact that so many of the people castigating people for being skeptical of the science regarding AGW are so quick to ignore the science when it comes to supplying electric or population growth demonstrates that science means nothing to them. It is just a tool used to advance their cult which is discarded whenever it is inconvenient.

Abu Dhabi of all countries disagrees with you. They have been pretty heavily involved in fossil fuels but they now see the writing on the wall.

Abu Dhabi: Abu Dhabi will build the world’s largest solar power plant in its push towards cleaner energy.

http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/environment/abu-dhabi-to-build-world-s-largest-solar-power-plant-1.2032688

http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/03/02/10-reasons-why-abu-dhabis-top-bank-says-you-must-back-renewables/
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 09:28:35 pm by Omni »

guest4

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Re: GG Comments on Religion
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2017, 08:53:15 am »
The chart is irrelevant. It neither supports nor refutes my claim. My claim is based on various decisions taken by the German government to limit the further expansion of renewables and it maintain their coal based power supply (notwithstanding the green party wishful thinking). See: http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/germany-cutting-back-renewable-subsidies-stabilize-electric-grid/

Now I am sure other people will post  links to *wishful thinking" for the future but such claims don't mean much compared to the real actions of the German government.

The bottom line is renewables can't replace base-load - that is an irrefutable engineering fact given technology available today. Now engineering deniers like waldo can scream about unicorn farts and pixie dust but it is not going to change reality. The fact that so many of the people castigating people for being skeptical of the science regarding AGW are so quick to ignore the science when it comes to supplying electric or population growth demonstrates that science means nothing to them. It is just a tool used to advance their cult which is discarded whenever it is inconvenient.

Ah, I see!  The collection of energy through renewables was so efficient that they over-produced for a period of time.
On Sunday, May 8, renewable energy supplied 87 percent of Germany’s electricity. Around 1 pm on that day, the country’s solar, wind, hydroelectric and biomass plants supplied about 55 gigawatts of the 63 gigawatts needed to meet demand. As a result, power prices went negative for several hours, meaning commercial customers were being paid to consume electricity. (See chart below.) The system’s natural gas plants were taken off line, but its coal and nuclear plants could not be quickly shut down and had to pay to sell power into the grid for several hours. That meant industrial customers such as refineries and manufacturers earned money by consuming electricity.


So the plan is to curb the use of renewables until they can figure out a way to ensure that there aren't spikes like that. 
However, there are problems that result from encouraging so much intermittent renewable energy onto the grid that will need to be resolved before such a transformation can take place. The German utility system is experiencing these problems now and limiting intermittent renewable expansion to counter some of them.

IMO, that's great news!  I remember that no more than two years ago, claims were made that renewables would never be able to produce enough power to make non-renewables redundant.  Clearly that's not true, even if there are some issues that need to be resolved.    Thank goodness not everyone takes the stand that not doing anything until all the problems are solved.   :)