Author Topic: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus  (Read 788 times)

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Offline the_squid

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2020, 12:18:17 pm »
Just give everyone free money, then they won't have to commit fraud.

Friend of mine is a small business person. He was talking to his tax accountant the other day and the accountant told him he had another client who wanted him to fudge hs books so his kids could get CERB. You bet there is fraud going on. And then you have businesses who can't get people because CERB is making it possible to take the summer off.

Those lazy ba$tards!!  They’d rather stay home and avoid a deadly virus than to go to work for $12/hr in a restaurant and be at risk!  The gall of them placing their health, and the health of their family, as their first priority!!
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2020, 12:25:16 pm »
The Liberals are polling at 44%, 19% above the Conservatives.

The perfect storm of giving out bags of money, supporting the gov during an emergency, and the other parties all being garbage at the moment.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2020, 12:27:18 pm »
The Liberals are polling at 44%, 19% above the Conservatives.

So? Polls won't service the debt, you and your grand kids will.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2020, 12:31:08 pm »
Those lazy ba$tards!!  They’d rather stay home and avoid a deadly virus than to go to work for $12/hr in a restaurant and be at risk!  The gall of them placing their health, and the health of their family, as their first priority!!

Restaurants and bars have been closed, they couldn't open until yesterday. Next time you go to the grocery or any other store or service you need, tell them they are all idiots and to close up and go home. We'll all stay home and starve, but no one will get Covid-19.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 12:33:18 pm by wilber »
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Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2020, 12:37:26 pm »
What's dumb is to believe that we can run an economy by just borrowing and printing money and giving it to each other.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2020, 01:31:30 pm »
Restaurants and bars have been closed, they couldn't open until yesterday. Next time you go to the grocery or any other store or service you need, tell them they are all idiots and to close up and go home. We'll all stay home and starve, but no one will get Covid-19.

I didn’t say they shouldn’t go to work.  But I won’t judge someone who won’t, or can’t, take that risk.  I’m not going to be a prick and say “they want the summer off” as if they’re lazy bums. 

Offline the_squid

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2020, 01:33:52 pm »
What's dumb is to believe that we can run an economy by just borrowing and printing money and giving it to each other.

No one has said that you can. But there is a pandemic...   so there’s a compelling reason why things had to shut down for a while and every country hit by it has been forced to spend a lot more money than they normally would have if there wasn’t a pandemic. 

Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2020, 02:18:04 pm »
I didn’t say they shouldn’t go to work.  But I won’t judge someone who won’t, or can’t, take that risk.  I’m not going to be a prick and say “they want the summer off” as if they’re lazy bums.

Some do though.
A lot of people are taking the risk to provide the things we need and we should be damn glad they are.
If you want to stay home simply because you don't want to take a risk, I'm not sure others should have to pay you to do it.
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2020, 02:20:15 pm »
Some do though.
A lot of people are taking the risk to provide the things we need and we should be damn glad they are.
If you want to stay home simply because you don't want to take a risk, I'm not sure others should have to pay you to do it.

When you figure out a way to split the 2 groups apart, then maybe let the government know.  I’m sure they’d like to hear how to do it. 

But, before we worry about a drop in the bucket, we should be going after the rich tax cheats who owe billions.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2020, 03:18:58 pm »
At this point many of the workers who can't work are getting the CERB basically as a replacement for EI payments they'd be getting anyways, and you can get those for up to 36 weeks.

There has to be some incentive for people to work, especially those making low wages, because the difference between the CERB and a full-time minimum wage job is basically nothing.  After 36 weeks if people still can't work then we have to look at disincentives to be on benefits.

Maybe people should have to pay back a portion of the CERB after that point, we can make it like a low interest loan, where you don't have to start paying it back until ie: 4 years from now, and until then it's interest-free, and after that the interest wouldn't be very low anyways and then increases as years go by to a maximum amount that still isn't high.  This is borrowing and debt that we have to pay back anyways, makes sense that the people who get the free money be the ones who have to pay back at least some of it.

There's also an issue where people are saving like never before, which is bad because people not spending hurts the economy.  People won't be spending like before if they aren't going out to restaurants and sporting events etc. but still.  Why should you be getting free money that you aren't spending, and be able to save it?  In the US Mark Cuban had an idea where if you don't spend the money the gov is giving within 10 days you lose it.  10 days seems like a ridiculously short period, but it could be something like 2 months.  If you aren't spending your free gov money on rent, mortgage, groceries, car payments etc. you don't need it.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2020, 03:25:13 pm »
When you figure out a way to split the 2 groups apart, then maybe let the government know.  I’m sure they’d like to hear how to do it. 



You don't think there should be oversight when they are handing out billions? Not just here's money, we'll sort it out if we ever get around to it. That can only end badly.


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But, before we worry about a drop in the bucket, we should be going after the rich tax cheats who owe billions.

CERB was originally supposed to cost 35 billion but who knows what it will actually cost if they keep extending it.  A 1% fraud rate would cost 350 million. How much would you consider a drop in the bucket?

Sure we should if they are actually cheating, but I think you over estimate the amount we could get from them.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2020, 03:39:07 pm »
At this point many of the workers who can't work are getting the CERB basically as a replacement for EI payments they'd be getting anyways, and you can get those for up to 36 weeks.

There has to be some incentive for people to work, especially those making low wages, because the difference between the CERB and a full-time minimum wage job is basically nothing.  After 36 weeks if people still can't work then we have to look at disincentives to be on benefits.

Maybe people should have to pay back a portion of the CERB after that point, we can make it like a low interest loan, where you don't have to start paying it back until ie: 4 years from now, and until then it's interest-free, and after that the interest wouldn't be very low anyways and then increases as years go by to a maximum amount that still isn't high.  This is borrowing and debt that we have to pay back anyways, makes sense that the people who get the free money be the ones who have to pay back at least some of it.

There's also an issue where people are saving like never before, which is bad because people not spending hurts the economy.  People won't be spending like before if they aren't going out to restaurants and sporting events etc. but still.  Why should you be getting free money that you aren't spending, and be able to save it?  In the US Mark Cuban had an idea where if you don't spend the money the gov is giving within 10 days you lose it.  10 days seems like a ridiculously short period, but it could be something like 2 months.  If you aren't spending your free gov money on rent, mortgage, groceries, car payments etc. you don't need it.

Sounds reasonable.

Hard not to save today if you have an income. Aside from food and shelter there isn't much to spend it on with everything closed and no travel. Can't drink as much as I used to and I can't even give a dentist a bunch of money to fix a busted tooth.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2020, 12:39:00 am »
of course G&M's Conservative/CPC shill extraordinaire has been on a tear parroting the weakAndy "position" that Canadians signing up for CERB payments are nothing but outright fraudsters

and now this guy is pushing for austerity during the pandemic... going so far as to pine for the days of his real hero, Harper!


there's also no getting rid of the azzhole Harper: why justVisitingJason has named Harper (and Conservative so-called "economist", Jack Mintz) to Alberta's Economic Recovery Council... cause, apparently, Harper's economics street-cred is impeccable!  ;D

Let’s Not Be Duped Again By Deficit Hawks Peddling Austerity

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We could actually be on our way to a very different and promising future. But, count on it, the deficit hawks will soon be circling menacingly overhead, hell-bent on preventing any diversion from the austerity they’ve confined us to for decades.

Slowly, cautiously, the deficit hawks are daring to come out of the shadows.

These are the well-heeled folks, from conservative think-tanks and political circles, who for decades have successfully pushed governments to impose austerity and social spending cuts on the rest of us, in the name of keeping government deficits small.

With the country reeling from the devastating economic shutdown caused by the coronavirus, these usually cocky deficit hawks haven’t yet mustered the nerve to come out fully against what is proving to be immensely popular with the public—a dramatic ramping up of Ottawa’s spending to shield Canadians from financial despair.

But, led by former Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper, the deficit-slaying crowd is starting to re-emerge, determined that the pandemic doesn’t become the transformative event that could spell the end of the deeply unequal, corporate-dominated economic world they’ve diligently constructed in recent decades.

After five years of near-silence following his 2015 electoral defeat, Harper took to the Wall Street Journal to proclaim the increased spending “economically ruinous” and to warn that if governments “fail to practice mild austerity proactively, a brutal kind will be thrust upon them.”

This is the same language deficit hawks used in the 1990s to frighten Canadians into believing that, unless we drastically cut government spending, we’d hit the “debt wall” — the perilous point where international investors would no longer lend us money.

Can Stephen Harper convince Canadians that they need less government?

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When the federal Conservatives choose a new leader and that leader comes up with a plan for post-pandemic Canada, look to Alberta for the template.

It is being designed right now with the help of Stephen Harper and, of course, one of his favourite former cabinet ministers, Alberta Premier Jason Kenney.

The two of them, along with the crème de la crème of Alberta’s old-style corporate power, have already begun laying the groundwork for what will supposedly pull Alberta out of the economic quagmire left by the pandemic and the crash in oil prices.

But it’s becoming clear that they have their sights set well beyond one province.

Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2020, 11:39:26 am »
Anyone who thinks this isn't potentially ruinous has their head in a hole. Austerity is on the way whether we want it or not. Count on it.

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This is the same language deficit hawks used in the 1990s to frighten Canadians into believing that, unless we drastically cut government spending, we’d hit the “debt wall” — the perilous point where international investors would no longer lend us money.

What a moron.

In 93 international investors were balking at lending us money, forcing Chretien and Martin to make big cuts in federal spending. One result of that was a big increase in provincial debt to cover lost transfers from the feds.

In 1993 we had one AAA from DBRS. By 94 DBRS had dropped to AA and Moody's was Aa1. We were headed down the slope.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2011-08-12/how-canada-lost-and-regained-its-top-credit-rating
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 11:56:06 am by wilber »
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Conservative Party response to Coronavirus
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2020, 01:08:58 pm »
of course G&M's Conservative/CPC shill extraordinaire has been on a tear parroting the weakAndy "position" that Canadians signing up for CERB payments are nothing but outright fraudsters

and now this guy is pushing for austerity during the pandemic... going so far as to pine for the days of his real hero, Harper!

Fife said the Liberals have been spending, spending, spending since they came into power.  Is he wrong?  He also said at some point the taps will have to be turned off.  Nowhere did he mention anything about austerity.  Apparently not spending more money than has ever been spent in Canadian history is "austerity" LOL.  Such a dirty, dirty word.  It's like a swear word!

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]Let’s Not Be Duped Again By Deficit Hawks Peddling Austerity

Can Stephen Harper convince Canadians that they need less government?

OMG a former NDP candidate writing in the Toronto Star complains about the government possibly cutting spending.  Oh my!

waldo:  I don't like this one so-called biased journalist, here's an article from the NDP in the Toronto Star & CommonDreams.org to prove why bias is bad.  :D
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 01:10:46 pm by Conspiracy Graham »
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019