Author Topic: Conservative Party leadership race  (Read 554 times)

Offline JMT

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2017, 12:19:11 am »
I hope he's right. I have a lot of concerns about the financial direction of the country

Honest question - why?

Offline Blueblood

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2017, 12:22:14 am »
I hope he's right. I have a lot of concerns about the financial direction of the country, but I'll never vote Conservative if it means swallowing a plate full of social-conservative dog-crap.

 -k

In fairness, a lot of those bridges were crossed during harpers turn in charge.  Not really social conservative at the end of the day.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2017, 12:31:32 am »
In fairness, a lot of those bridges were crossed during harpers turn in charge.  Not really social conservative at the end of the day.

I agree, and that's why I was always fairly open to team Harper. He always managed to keep that element of the party in line.  I got mad at the deficits... I was especially disappointed about the price-tag for the G20 in Toronto... but even then I really only decided for sure that it was time for a change during the campaign, when they tried to make miquabs a campaign issue. I felt like that was just shameful pandering.

 -k

Offline kimmy

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2017, 12:35:45 am »
Honest question - why?

I feel like the deficit spending Trudeau has committed to is excessive and unwarranted.  I feel like ideas like putting the pension age back to 65 are unrealistic. Overall I feel like this isn't a very good use of public money.

 -k

Offline Blueblood

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2017, 12:38:54 am »
I agree, and that's why I was always fairly open to team Harper. He always managed to keep that element of the party in line.  I got mad at the deficits... I was especially disappointed about the price-tag for the G20 in Toronto... but even then I really only decided for sure that it was time for a change during the campaign, when they tried to make miquabs a campaign issue. I felt like that was just shameful pandering.

 -k

I too agree.  The Niquab comment was like Paul martins soldiers in the streets comment and at that point you know the chicken is done.  People care a lot more about their finances and well being than identity politics.

Offline JMT

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2017, 12:51:20 am »
I feel like the deficit spending Trudeau has committed to is excessive and unwarranted.  I feel like ideas like putting the pension age back to 65 are unrealistic. Overall I feel like this isn't a very good use of public money.

 -k

I'm with you on the pension at 65 thing - I think that was stupid.

I try to listen to the experts on things like this.  I've heard almost no mainstream economist that is concerned with these deficits, or potential higher deficits going out into even the medium term.  As a result, I find myself unconcerned with them.

Offline Omni

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2017, 01:28:41 am »
Well it shows why we need immigration. We are not having babies very much, (1.6 babies on average so I hear) so us old farts who paid in all our working lives and now need some return, need young people in that work force paying taxes as we all did. We could try to keep everything pasty white but we might go broke in the process. 

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2017, 10:31:10 am »
I feel like ideas like putting the pension age back to 65 are unrealistic

I think you mean OAS/GIS, and the sad part is that it only applies to seniors that are at the bottom of the spectrum. With all the bluster about seniors being well off, Harper decided to attack those seniors who are not. If you want to save money, then take it from those who have money and not those that are struggling. No rolling the OSA/GIS back to age 65 is both realistic and the right thing to do.

Offline JMT

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2017, 11:19:11 am »
GIS is for poor seniors, but OAS in it's complete form is available for people who make up to ~$70,000 per year.  That isn't necessarily poor.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2017, 11:44:03 am »
I hope he's right. I have a lot of concerns about the financial direction of the country, but I'll never vote Conservative if it means swallowing a plate full of social-conservative dog-crap.

 -k

The problem with this sort of idea is it leads right back to them becoming the Progressive Conservatives, a party which differentiated not one single whit from the Liberal Party of Canada other than in the colour of its campaign literature.

Another problem is it leaves completely unrepresented, vast numbers of Canadians who might not be members of the alt-right, but definitely have a few quibbles about aspects of multisexual mutual respect, total abortion rights up to the 9th month of gestation, and embracing mind altering drugs for all. We're not talking a fringe here, but at least a quarter or a third or close to half of the population, depending on the question.

Another problem is that the number of people with enlightened progressive outlooks on these subjects who are also even remotely fiscally conservative is vanishingly small. The Progressive Conservative party had ZERO conservatives in it when it finally died. The progressive wing had completely taken over because they assumed the moral imperative that progressives generally do, and shut out anyone who disagreed, even slightly, as a 'dinosaur.'

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2017, 11:46:36 am »
when they tried to make miquabs a campaign issue. I felt like that was just shameful pandering.

To the 70% of the population which didn't like them?
Btw can you show me where they made niqabs a campaign issue? It seemed to me that every time the issue came up in the media it was because the Liberals or NDP brought it up, or the press did. I never saw Harper speak on it unless he was asked by the media

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2017, 11:48:09 am »
I too agree.  The Niquab comment was like Paul martins soldiers in the streets comment and at that point you know the chicken is done.  People care a lot more about their finances and well being than identity politics.

But the media cares ten thousand times more about identity politics than it does about boring financial matters, which was why the NDP and Liberals and their media reporters raised it continually all during the campaign in order to get them good publicity and put the Tories on the defensive as the 'nasty racist immigrant hating party'.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2017, 11:55:21 am »
Well it shows why we need immigration. We are not having babies very much, (1.6 babies on average so I hear) so us old farts who paid in all our working lives and now need some return, need young people in that work force paying taxes as we all did. We could try to keep everything pasty white but we might go broke in the process.

So would you like to reconcile how you think bringing in immigrants as unskilled labour to a progressive taxation system where they will never pay taxes is going to somehow pay for your pension?

You know, I was watching a video the other day of immigrants getting off the boat at Ellis Island way back when. Masses of them (all pasty white of course) and it didn't matter how many there were because they imposed not a single nickel of obligation on the taxpayer. They were going out into the world to sink or swim, and if they sank nobody cared. There was no help to find housing or learn the language, no subsidies for housing or food coupons, no welfare, no unemployment no free health care. Nothing. Hell, if you got arrested that didn't even cost the state the money for a lawyer to defend you, and prisons were awfully cheap.

None of which is the case today, which is why Milton Friedman said you can't have open immigration with a welfare state.

Offline Blueblood

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2017, 12:03:43 pm »
But the media cares ten thousand times more about identity politics than it does about boring financial matters, which was why the NDP and Liberals and their media reporters raised it continually all during the campaign in order to get them good publicity and put the Tories on the defensive as the 'nasty racist immigrant hating party'.

Even the more reason for Tories not to fall into the identity politics rabbit hole.  If the media is suggesting that the Tories are racist without evidence, then they get to be called fake news and enjoy their credibility eroding.


Offline ?Impact

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Re: Conservative Party leadership race
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2017, 12:19:19 pm »
The Progressive Conservative party had ZERO conservatives in it when it finally died. The progressive wing had completely taken over because they assumed the moral imperative that progressives generally do, and shut out anyone who disagreed, even slightly, as a 'dinosaur.'

I don't think the Conservative party had anyone remotely fiscally conservative in it either. Perhaps the Reform party did at one time.