Author Topic: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard  (Read 254 times)

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Offline the_squid

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Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« on: December 05, 2020, 01:33:38 am »
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The MP has also tweeted to his 18,000 followers, “I’m getting slammed for sponsoring a petition on vaccine protocol for COVID-19”, and named three journalists – including myself. This has led to a nasty campaign of vitriol and abuse, which was inevitable, and only goes to prove the point that the anti-vaccine coalition is a deeply sinister one. With Canada, with the world, crying out for a way to deal with the pandemic and thus save lives, health, and jobs; it really is extraordinary that conspiracy theories and dangerous fantasy should be given a veneer of parliamentary credibility.
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https://ipolitics.ca/2020/12/03/sloan-alone-over-to-you-mr-toole/

Where’s O’Toole?  Why hasn’t he turfed this right-wing nut out of caucus...  oh wait...   MP Sloan represents a significant base of the Conservative Party. 

Another reason these crackpots should never again get near holding power.

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Offline JMT

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2020, 08:41:19 am »
This is the kind of stuff that the accidentally released call readout was referring to.

Offline MH

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2020, 12:03:08 pm »
I'm so sick of these idiots.  I won't vote for them until they scrape off the stupid...
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2020, 04:04:29 pm »
I knew little on the vaccine topic so I researched it the last couple of days.

It's true that vaccines are virtually always tested for much longer periods, typically many years or even a decade of development & testing, to test for adverse side effects & effectiveness.  It's also true that testing for these COVID vaccines is being significantly shortened in order to roll them out quicker to save lives.  People are right to have questions.  We should only shame people who go against science, not simply for having concerns and questions.

There have been rare examples in the past of severe side-effects from vaccines, ie: birth defects, such as when given to pregnant women, which have also led to unscientific anti-vaxx freakouts.  Today there are many safe vaccines that pregnant women are encouraged to take, while others medical officials recommend to avoid.  This is why these COVID vaccines initially will not approved to be administered to pregnant women or children until further testing.

It's rightly assumed that the risks for rare unforeseen side-effects are greatly outweighed by the danger of the COVID virus.  If I were in a high-risk cohort I'd get the vaccine ASAP.  15% of people over 80 are dying of COVID.  15% of >80 won't die from the vaccine.

I don't know much about Sloan, he could very well be a wingnut.  Glancing his petition, he's not anti-vaxx so much as has major concerns of the safety of the rush on this, some founded and others not.  We've seen Alberta resist masks and lockdowns and now they have tons of cases because they are anti-science morons.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/pregnancy-week-by-week/expert-answers/vaccines-during-pregnancy/faq-20057799

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoUEb4qKaWI
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2020, 05:32:57 pm »
I'm so sick of these idiots.  I won't vote for them until they scrape off the stupid...

What specifically do you object to about the petition?

I think there's some anti-vaxx in it, in the first part in some of the "whereas" first section.  In the actual main "We the undersigned" section I think it's fine except for maybe #3 based on the emergency need for the vaccine.

https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-2961
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 05:39:43 pm by Gorgeous Graham »
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Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2020, 05:48:41 pm »
I think there is some miss information in that petition, like the comment that these vaccines haven't been tested against a placebo. As far as I know, all the vaccines in stage 3 trials are tested against a placebo.

Also that the vaccines are not designed to prevent infection or transmission. That is not fully known but if they don't, that is even more reason to be vaccinated yourself.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 05:55:47 pm by wilber »
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2020, 05:58:19 pm »
I think there is some miss information in that petition, like the comment that these vaccines haven't been tested against a placebo. As far as I know, all the vaccines in stage 3 trials are tested against a placebo.

Yes I think you're right it sounds BS:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/health/covid-vaccine-placebo-group.html

Maybe there's one or some that aren't tested against placebo?  Dunno.  What would be the point of that?  Only thing I found like in the article above was that there's concern that people in testing who get the placebo want to get vaccinated so then placebo patients won't be able to be studied medium/longterm.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 06:01:32 pm by Gorgeous Graham »
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Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2020, 06:15:40 pm »
Yes I think you're right it sounds BS:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/02/health/covid-vaccine-placebo-group.html

Maybe there's one or some that aren't tested against placebo?  Dunno.  What would be the point of that?  Only thing I found like in the article above was that there's concern that people in testing who get the placebo want to get vaccinated so then placebo patients won't be able to be studied medium/longterm.

Why would they study the placebo subjects, the placebos used were already proven vaccines.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2020, 06:22:14 pm »
Why would they study the placebo subjects, the placebos used were already proven vaccines.

Not sure what you mean.
 
They would I assume study the side effects on people given the vaccine vs given placebo over the medium and longterm.  The trials for these vaccines have been about 2 months long, which scientists say is how long most side-effects take to show up.  I would assume they'd want to study the vaccine effects vs placebo over medium and longterm.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2020, 07:32:25 pm »
Not sure what you mean.
 
They would I assume study the side effects on people given the vaccine vs given placebo over the medium and longterm.  The trials for these vaccines have been about 2 months long, which scientists say is how long most side-effects take to show up.  I would assume they'd want to study the vaccine effects vs placebo over medium and longterm.

They already know the side effects of the placebo vaccines because they have been in use for years. It would be stupid to give them a placebo where the long term and side effects weren't known.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 07:41:52 pm by wilber »
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2020, 08:13:03 pm »
They already know the side effects of the placebo vaccines because they have been in use for years. It would be stupid to give them a placebo where the long term and side effects weren't known.

Sure but then what's the point of ever using a placebo?
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Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2020, 08:42:27 pm »
Sure but then what's the point of ever using a placebo?

So the people in the study don't know which vaccine they received.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2020, 09:19:57 pm »
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/pregnancy-week-by-week/expert-answers/vaccines-during-pregnancy/faq-20057799

As far as I understand, pregnant women and children are ineligible to get the vaccine at current. Testing needs to be done first. That's expected to be completed in 6-9 months.

Safety testing was not short changed here. There is only one difference. Normally, the follow people for at least two months post phase 3 to see if there are any long term effects. That is being done here on a rolling basis, and so some people, because of emergency use benefits, will get the vaccine before that is complete.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2020, 09:44:34 pm »
So the people in the study don't know which vaccine they received.

LOL.  You're talking in circles.  Then are they using them now in these trials?  All all trials for any vaccine?  Shits n giggles?  Obviously there's a reason they want to study placebo patients for these COVID vaccines for more than 2 months.

Don't shoot the messenger:  https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2033538

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Offline wilber

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Re: Conservative MP anti-vaxxer conspiratard
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2020, 10:25:52 pm »
LOL.  You're talking in circles.  Then are they using them now in these trials?  All all trials for any vaccine?  Shits n giggles?  Obviously there's a reason they want to study placebo patients for these COVID vaccines for more than 2 months.

Don't shoot the messenger:  https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2033538

The AstraZeneca study used a meningitis vaccine as a placebo. The reason being is that it would give the sore arm symptom that people would expect from a vaccine and the subjects wouldn't know if they had received the real thing or the placebo. The idea is that all the subjects will behave the same way after being vaccinated and they can get a more accurate result from the study. 
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